Just a bunch of Questions?

Islam is a religion of Death.  Christianity is a religion of life.  Christians live for Christ.  Muslims live for death in the name of Allah.  They want a war?  We'll give them a war they wont beleive.......In jesus name....Amen.....

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

Why out of all the relligions on earth has the Koran been incorporated into the society of the middle east? You have a choice if you live in the middle east. Worship Allah or be exterminated. Like communists you raise you children on a religion or non religion, after a few generations you have a population that adheres to the philosophy.

The Koran teaches that anyone who does not worship Allah is an infidel and should be killed.

I think that it was about 400 years after the death of Christ that Mohammad (and he is still dead and did not rise) took the bible and rewrote it into the Koran.

There are so many factions of Islam that they cannot agree as to what is written in the Koran. They have been killing their own for centurys over this. Once the Middleeast was very advanced in art, music, philosophy, mathamatics. They have their dark ages also. I think they are still in it. One must have a society of  peace to advance.

How many people do you see in the United States living in mud shacks? using camels or horses as their only means of transportaton or to  make a living? The general population of the middleeast is very poor. Only a few have all the money. You cannot control people who are educated.

A lot of our politicans donot understand the Middleeast mentality. We are infidels and are below dogs on their scale of society. Why do you think that they never keep their word on a given subject. The Koran teaches them they donot have to. We are infidels.

Look at what happened in France. They tried to apease the Musllims. Good luck with that.

Those who give up freedom for security have neither.

Interesting comments by smunsy & whitewolf.  Some are true. But before we offer a total comdemnation of Islam, their philosophies or practises, perhaps we need to look at the other side of the coin.

If Islam is a "religion of death," as smunsey claims, some serious consideration should be aimed at other religions.  Christianity was a religion of death also, for those who did not adhere to it.  The "Dark Ages," is a very appropriate term in more ways than one.  It is well documented in any history book, if one cares to look up the facts.

Intolerance, exclusivity, arrogance and the subjugation of women were in place long before Islam entered the scene, mostly by Christianity.  Once again, well documented in history, if one takes the time & effort to find out. That some should be killed if they do not worship Allah, I wonder from where they got that idea. "Thou shalt not have false gods before me."  I'm certain I read something like that some where, & it wasn't the Koran.

The questions of whitewolf concerning the living conditions of those in the Middle East are valid questions and need to be answered.  But here we are, the most advanced industrial country in the world.  How many of our people live in poverty?  Way too many.  How many are functionally illiterate or can't even read at grade level?  How many don't have access to adequate health care?  Once again, too many. How many in our country are homeless or live in abject poverty?  Same answer.  Even some of our own soldiers, returning from combat in the Middle East, don't have acces to adequate physical or mental health care. That is a horrible stain on this country.  And let us not forget, as if we need to be reminded, we live in a supposedly  Christian country.

If, as a country, we would ever decide to, "Give them a war they wont believe...in jesus name," and in the process, force them to accept Christian principles and ideas of morality, a prospect I have absolutely no doubt would happen, then we will have become one of "them."  No better and certainly worse.  At that point, we will have revived the darkest mindset of Dark Age Christianity.  Arrogance, exclusivity, intollerance and the end of progress will rule, just as it did before, with the sword and the shield with a cross on it.

Sorry gentlemen, I can't subscribe to that possibility.  The conclusions are just to horrible to contemplate.  Granted, conditions are not the best here, but they are much better than in other parts of the world.  I for one don't care for the religious climate we have, but at least we still have a choice.

If one of our political philosophies is to ensure that others have the right to self determination, we must be prepared to accept the fallout if others wish to determine their futures by being guided by their own religious philosophies.  It might be a tough pill to swallow, but it is, nonetheless, a fact of life if we wish to validate our own philosophies.

RichK

If Islam is a "religion of death," as smunsey claims, some serious consideration should be aimed at other religions.  Christianity was a religion of death also, for those who did not adhere to it.  The "Dark Ages," is a very appropriate term in more ways than one.  It is well documented in any history book, if one cares to look up the facts.

(A lot has changed in the last 500 -1000 years, instead of looking into history, perhaps you should look at the present/reality)

 Intolerance, exclusivity, arrogance and the subjugation of women were in place long before Islam entered the scene, mostly by Christianity.  Once again, well documented in history, if one takes the time & effort to find out. That some should be killed if they do not worship Allah, I wonder from where they got that idea. "Thou shalt not have false gods before me."  I'm certain I read something like that some where, & it wasn't the Koran.

(I doubt very serious you have ever read anything in the bible.  Again, a lot has changed in the past 1000 years. Ask yourself this now.  How do Christians currently treat women?  How do Muslims currently treat women?  Case Closed!)

 The questions of whitewolf concerning the living conditions of those in the Middle East are valid questions and need to be answered.  But here we are, the most advanced industrial country in the world.  How many of our people live in poverty?  Way too many.  How many are functionally illiterate or can't even read at grade level?  How many don't have access to adequate health care?  Once again, too many. How many in our country are homeless or live in abject poverty?  Same answer.  Even some of our own soldiers, returning from combat in the Middle East, don't have acces to adequate physical or mental health care. That is a horrible stain on this country.  And let us not forget, as if we need to be reminded, we live in a supposedly  Christian country.

(You’re grasping at straws here.  Even most of the people in poverty in this country live way better lives then poverty stricken people in the Mid East.  If you make $15,000.00 or less, you considered living in poverty.  Most people in the Mid East don’t see $15,000.00 in 10 years.  As far as soldiers not having adequate health care is just a lie.  Even people without health insurance have better health care then most in the world)

 If, as a country, we would ever decide to, "Give them a war they wont believe...in jesus name," and in the process, force them to accept Christian principles and ideas of morality, a prospect I have absolutely no doubt would happen, then we will have become one of "them."  No better and certainly worse.  At that point, we will have revived the darkest mindset of Dark Age Christianity.  Arrogance, exclusivity, intolerance and the end of progress will rule, just as it did before, with the sword and the shield with a cross on it.

(Just because Christianity is a religion of life and peace does not mean we do not have a right to defend it.  Christians are tolerable of all other religions, it’s our job, as good Christians, to spread the word of Christ, not to kill in the name of Christ unless our existence is threatened.  Which it currently is)

 Sorry gentlemen, I can't subscribe to that possibility.  The conclusions are just to horrible to contemplate.  Granted, conditions are not the best here, but they are much better than in other parts of the world.  I for one don't care for the religious climate we have, but at least we still have a choice.

(Muslims believe Christians are cowards because we do not want to fight for what we believe.  They are mistaken.  War is an ugly things, but not he ugliest of things.  The Decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.  The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made so and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself – John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

Good Day.

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

Muslim's have it pretty hard in this country right now as it is, and for them to "speak up against your radical, extremist brethren" is just not a good idea. Borderline retarded, in fact. Can you imagine if your German neighbor started a conversation with "well in the defense of the nazi's..."

 Also, the Koran may be intolerant of others, but Christians do have a ...slight... tendency to do the same thing. 

Also, the Koran may be intolerant of others, but Christians do have a ...slight... tendency to do the same thing. 

(The difference is:  Muslims teach intolerance.  Christians teach the word of christ.  If you are not a Christian, we do not want to kill you.  If you are not a Muslim, they want to kill you.  Any questions?)

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

Personally, I don't think every Muslim on the face of the planet wants to kill me.  What we have is a fundamental issue over how a religion is practiced.  In a Christian world, we are free to adhere to our religion with fervor, or be lukewarm.  In a Muslim world, you must practice your religion fervently in public, or you face death by your own brothers.  Most Muslims will tell people, in private, that they do not condone violence.  Publicly, they are afraid, so they go along to get along.  The religion of Mohammed is a harsh religion, not unlike religion described in the old testament.  (Eye for an eye kind of thing.) While there are a few religious fanatics who profess a mutated form of christianity,  (Jim Jones followers, Branch Davidians, etc.), most of us believe in free will.  Muslims on the other hand have very little notion of freewill.  Their religion is based on fear and endless fatwahs pronounced by reactionary imams. Inflamatory remarks by masses of Christians and Muslims do nothing to solve this issue. 

I agree.  Things have changed in the last 500 to 1,000 years.  Point being, they haven't changed enough. Even a cursory look at the web sites of some of the major Christian evangelical organisations, especially in the past six years, will show that attitudes have not changed much.  I don't like it, but it is a fact of life. 

I do look at the present/reality, contrary to your comment. But without an understanding of how present conditions came about, without an historical perspective, we are in a position to repeat past mistakes.  It's called learning from one's mistakes.  It's the larger view you seemed to have missed.

Being raised Catholic, attending Catholic grade school & Catholic high school, I did have my fair share of time being connected to that book.  Can I quote scripture & verse?  No.  But that's not a requirement of accumulating knowledge or leading a moral/ethical life.  Sorry to say that once again, you are incorrect in your assumptions.

Christians, by & large, treat their women in a manner I would call better than their Islamic counterparts, at least most of them. But the larger view must be judged. Unfortunately, Catholics still treat women as second class people.  From what I have read & heard, some Protestant denominations, mostly Southern Baptists, require their wives to, "graciously submit," to the will of their husbands.  Yes, you are right in that comparrison.  But, as you might say, it's only taken 500 to 1,000 years.  And they still haven't figured out that they are wasting a tremendous resource,  Their women, half the population.  Better than in some religions, but one would hope they would have advanced a bit more in their attitudes in that space of time. Maybe they really don't accept the concept of rights or even common sense.  Once again, the larger view needs to looked at.  It's a shame you missed it again.

If you truely think that I'm grasping at straws, speaking of relative poverty, tell that to a child who has little education and few prospects in life while he goes hungry night after night.  Try telling that to someone who wants something better for their children, but are to sick from disease &/or malnutrition to get work.  Putting an arbitrary monetary amount on poverty is fairly useless once that line has been passed.  Hunger is hunger.  Larger point?  Before we start condemning or bad mouthing another people or religion, we should have our own glass house in order.  Sorry you missed that larger point.

We should care what Muslims think about us..up to a point.  You may correct me if I am wrong, but I haven't noticed anything in the news reporting that they have insisted we mention Allah in our pledge.  I also must have missed the story about puting the phrase, "In Allah We Trust," on our currency. Somewhere along the line, I must have also missed the story that they have taken over our government and are using our tax dollars to promote Islamic faith based initiatives that would practise Islamic, discriminatory hiring practices where the bulk of those funds would go to Islamic endevors.  Mea Culpa.

Once again, you missed the larger view.  Have they terrorised us & killed some of our people?  Yes.  But they have not invaded us or are likely to. Do we have a right to defend ourselves?  Of course. When and if the time comes that we are invaded by a diminishing, fragmented group of a poverty stricken segment of another society, we should indeed, defend ourselves.  But no one has seen any indications of that yet.  But by your attitude and your words, you would have this country embark on some kind of Christian Jihad on all people of the Muslim faith.  The thing that is truly frightening is that I have no reason to think that you are absolutely convinced that you are right.  That & the fact that there are more people out there who would agree with you. I find that a very undesireable prospect for our country.

Take your short view if you want.  That is your right.  Don't bother with the larger view.  That is your right also.  Some say that ignorance is bliss.  It most certainly is.  But not for long.

RichK

You are right Rich we have not been invaded. It takes a state with an army to do that.

I would rather be proactive in rooting out the terrorists all over the world with a big hammer. Rather than waiting until some rogue country builds a suitecase nucular divice and detonates it in a city.

We did not find weapons of mass distruction in Iraq. The Al-Quida training camps all over the middle east were being supported by the leader of the country. If no weapons of mass destruction were found what happened to the gas that Saddam used on the people of that country? Have you seen the sattellite photos of all the trucks going into Syria.

These countrys should be invaded, Their nucular production destroyed, The leaders excuted for crimes against humanity. Then just leave the country. No money for rebuilding. Maybe then the people will elect responsible leaders.

I do not want to foster my beliefs on anyone. I just want to be left alone to live my life. But don't tell me you are going to kill me and expect me to do nothing. Not going to happen.

I spent 6 years in the middleeast. I know the mentality of the people. I have seen their solders beat people on the street because they did not get out of the way fast enough. I have seen solders just go into peoples houses and make them wash and iron uniforms and feed them while they were there.

Thoes who give up freedom for security have neither

Whitewolf,

First of all, let me acknowledge the fact that I would not question your experiences in the Middle East.  I have not been there, do not know the conditions under which people live, outside of what I read in the news, & can't have the first hand knowledge of one who has been there, seen it & done it.  My compliments to you for living, surviving & thriving in a  very hostile, foreign environment.

My viewpoint comes from not only a historical viewpoint, but one that is juxtaposed with the realities we have now, the philosophies to which we aspire and the future to which we hope to see.  No way is it an easy concept.  Problem is, our leaders seem to think it is. 

I respect  the self given right of any people  to govern themselves the way they want to.  I respect their right to worship whatever deity they want to in any way they want to.  That is not to be confused with respecting their views or their philosophies.  But I have to stop & think a bit when it comes to preparing  a philosophy that espouses a pre-emptive strike  against a people who have not wronged me in any substantial manner.

History has shown us that to be a folly not to be followed. If we  do that, we gain fear, not respect. As far as I am concerned, I would rather have the  respect of another people as opposed to the fear of another people. 

Unfortunately, the many sided problems we have in the Middle East seem to be centered on oil.  That's a big Tango Sierra, but it is a fact of life.  I, along with others, have posited the opinion that if it were not for our dependency on oil, we would have no reason to be in the Middle East at all.

Given that, we would let them have their religious squabbles, their tribal wars but they they would not be able to say that we were "defiling," their so-called holy lands.

But  I do not subscribe to a "pre-emptive" strike mentality.  Let us first protect & defend our own borders.  Let us first put the interests of our own citizens above  others. Let us first put our own house in order before we condemn the houses of others. Just another tip from uncle Rich.

RichK

Muslims where is your voice?

I wrote just a bunch of Question’s in hope that I would here from the Muslim population, or at least just one from the Islamic faith. From what I have read on all of the responses I would have to conclude not one is from a Muslim. To all that have responded your opinions are yours whether they are right or wrong, I care not to judge here. I would certainly like to have a Muslim answer the questions ask. Out of all that I have read there is one sentence that stuck out as if written in red, and that was written by Whitewolf “The Koran teaches that anyone who does not worship Allah is an infidel and should be killed”.  

If this statement is true, the only logical conclusion I can come to is that anyone from the Muslim faith would be my enemy. The reason, No one! Shall ever force me to accept a belief that I choose not to, and not one shall take the freedom of choice from me with out a fight to the death. I don’t want enemies in my life, I would prefer to live and let live.  As I said earlier without the voice of the Islamic person what other conclusion can one make? Your continued silence say’s it all. Muslim’s There is no reason to fear, you can write in this blog and no one would know who you are. So I ask again, Muslim’s where is your voice?  Speak up and tell me that you are not my enemy!!

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.  4 responses in one night, my wife's going to kill me.

Ghostwriter - are there any Muslims in Clay County?  Maybe a handful.  What would you have them do?  Parade along 220 in front of Wal-Mart boycotting Al-Qaida (now THAT would make the news)?  Like Harry says, they probably are scared to death to even be known as Muslims.

Uncle Rich hit the nail on the head.  A Christian lecturing a Muslim about tolerance is a little too much like, you know, the kettle and the pot.  Thank God (pun intended) for agnostics.  I would no more want an extremist Christian in charge than I would an extremist Muslim.  They are both dangerous.  But I would vote for a Muslim for president in a minute if I thought they were the best candidate.  At some point in the evolution of society - maybe another 500 to 1,000 years, all this religion crap be relegated to "what consenting adults do at home" kind of mentality, and my god will be no better than your god.  Until then, we will be required to kill one another . . . in the name of God/Allah.

"Imagine there were nothing to live or die for."  John Lennon.  Really, try to imagine.

Baxley,

Thanks for the kind words.  Hope you are still alive to read this.  Remind me never to tick off your wife. I agree with your comments.  FYI, this is not a new phenomena.  It seems that we have had some form or another of religious persecution/threats for a long time.  Read a very good book on the subject a few months ago.  The title is, "In the Name of Heaven," 3,000 years of Religious Persecution, by Mary Jane Engh.  It's an eye opener.

Actually, It's your last line, the one from John Lennon that got me thinking.  As soon as I saw it, it reminded me of an old episode from "WKRP in Cinncinnati." back in the 70's.  If I remember correctly, they had an extremist "born again" type minister who was threatening the station by trying to get advertisers to pull their money from the station.  Why?  Because the station played the song you mentioned, Imagine.

Some how, this preacher, apparently a Jerry Falwell wannabe, got it into his head that the song was promoting the removal of religion from the public eye.  Sound familiar?  After some attempts & much explanation, the people finally got it through his delusional little mind that the only thing the song was promoting was "Imagining," something.  The use of one's mind or at least exercising the right to think differently.  I find it a darned shame that in this day and age, we still have people of such extreme religious views who have that same mind set. 

I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.  Just another tip from uncle Rich.

Richk