poker room

People formulate opinions based on a variety of things, just like our fingerprints we are all unique.

For some people it does not matter what the financial advantage is to the local economy.  For some it is a moral issue and there is nothing else TO understand.  To the person who is morally opposed to gambling regardless what flavor it comes in they don't care about how nice or classy it looks.  Just like a prostitute is a prostitute whether they walk the streets to get their work or they take reservations from a Penthouse Suite.  A prettier package does not change what it is.  

 Neither person is obligated to the others' criteria for formulating a personal opinion. 

Marsha I absolutely agree that if someone has a moral issue with gambling they should take a stand against it.  But, I would wonder if those "moral" people buy lottery tickets or play bingo.  Because isn't that just a prettier picture also?

 My problem is the people that spout off statistic and studies that come from Atlantic City and Las Vegas.  The proposed Poker Room can not be compared to these places.  It is not the same thing.  Those places are full fledged casinos. 

 People say that a poker room would bring more crime to our city, but did they call the St. Johns County Sherriffs office and see how many calls they have received from the Poker Room located in that county?   That city is much closer to us than Las Vegas.  Maybe they did and they didn't get anything they could use.

I was told that the poker room as well as the Orange Park track and the one on McDuff employee their own security staff that includes members of the police force in their county.  So where is the crime issue.  Crime comes with population growth.  As our county grows so will crime, unfortunately.

Do we want all businesses on Park to close?  Is that what we are saying??

If you do not want a poker room because of moral issues than say just that.  My problem is the untrue statements made by the people against it that are half truths or downright untrue.

While outside the town meeting Tuesday I actually heard a person wearing a NO badge refer to the people standing outside supporting the poker room as prostitues.  Now where is the moral upstanding citizen here?  And an applaud to the person that did not engage her but ignored her.  I don't know if I could have handled that as well as you did.

Good Luck on Tuesday Orange Park Kennel Club. 

It was sad to see the "Christians" who are opposed to this issue resorting to judging others and name calling.  If they had any valid arguments against this good community neighbor expanding their business, this would not be necessary.  Some even felt they had to threaten the Council members.  Sad.

Yes, I agree totally.  Opponents of the Poker Room did not have a compelling argument.  "I don't like gambling!" or "Card Playing is immoral!" aren't compeling arguments (Do you think "I don't like paying taxes" is a good excuse for citizens not to?).  So instead of presenting weak arguments devoid of facts, opponents just dazzled those in attendance with some pretty laugable statistics, numbers either generated by flinging dice on a table or by data analysists who rely on portable abacuses instead of laptops.  I hope we in Orange Park are governed by gentlemen who use facts to make decesions and aren't persuaded by false analogies and fairy tales.

I agree that the Poker Room is the right thing at the right time for OP.  I was at the Workshop and was appalled by how fast and loose the detractors played with the facts.  St. Johns County has had several years of Poker Room experience and the "parade of horribles" hasn't happened.  Not even close.

The Kennel Club is an impressive, well-maintained landmark on 17 and the Poker Room will blend seamlessly into the existing building.  Plenty of parking, attendance spread over a 12-hour day, and individuals who are to free to make their own entertainment choices enjoying themselves in a friendly and safe environment. 

It's a win-win for Orange Park.

I am encouraging the town council to vote in favor of the proposed Poker Room at Orange Park Kennel Club.  I believe it will add another much needed entertainment option to the Orange Park area.  It will be placed in an exsisting business facility that has been regulated, well run, and taxed for years.  The Dog Track has been a good corporate citizen in Northeast Florida as well as running a clean, safe operation.  The area where the Track is located has been enhanced by the presence of the facility with its landscaping and well maintained grounds.  It stands above the closed gas station and lower end motels and closed restaurant that greets you when you enter Orange Park from the north.  The Poker room would be a well run addition to a business that has been an asset to the community for years.  As a matter of fact Orange Park Kennel Club was once the social center of Orange Park.

 The addition of the Poker Room would also mean additional good paying jobs and the increase spending in the local community that always follows new jobs, not to mention the increase tax base.  Prior to opening the Poker Room at St Johns Greyhound Park they conducted a dealer school for new employees.  The same would hold true for Orange Park Kennel Club, which means they could hire employees from the community with no prior experience.

It is for these reasons that I would hope the town council would vote yes for the Poker Room for the town of Orange Park.

New bloggers,

Welcome, we at MCS have been debating the OPKC expansion for many weeks and welcome new comments and ideas. If you want to read some great debate held prior to the hearings, just search here on MCS for key words "OP Kennel Club" or "poker room."

Keep those comments coming.

I would like to start off by saying that I am in favor of the poker room at the Orange Park Kennel Club. I don't know if it would make me visit them more often or not just because there was a poker room there, but if I wanted to I should have the personal choice to go.

As for overspending and having a problem, you can get addicted to anything.  We are all adults, as you must me 18 to wager, so it's all about personal responsibility.

Any other business that would want to expand and increase its business opportunities in the community would be welcomed with open arms, but since it's the Orange Park Kennel Club people have issues with it.

The thing that really got to me the other night at the town meeting was this. The groups of people in opposition to the poker room at the Orange Park Kennel Club were talking about Family Values all over the place, yet they were not displaying any of what they were preaching.

While the parents were inside sitting, their children were outside, alone, running around, screaming, yelling, causing a distraction, totally unsupervised. They tore thru the grass and ran over the flowers and even broke a branch on a tree.

How do I know who they belonged too? They ran up right behind me and were yelling mommy and taking to a lady with a no button in her chest. Talk about hypocrites.

Although it doesn't directly say there is a separation of church and state in the constitution, the First Amendment guarantees the principle of the separation of church and state - by implication, because separating church and state is what allows religious liberty to exist in the first place. Therefore this should be a decision based on facts and not feelings.

The Orange Park Kennel Club is a great corporate neighbor to the community. They have given loads of charitable contributions to the community and places like the Quigley House, the Safe Animal Shelter, YMCA's, Schools, and various retirement homes have benefited from their generosity.

The new poker room would add new jobs to the county that sees most of its population leaving the county to go to their jobs. Why do you think that there is so much traffic in the morning and the evening times? Everyone is going to or coming home from a different county.

The jobs added will be higher paying jobs, I think they said a $40,000 Average, and can be had by anyone. These are not reserved for already trained personnel and they said they offer free training for the added employees.

Plus nothing new will be build, just an upgrade to the inside part of the existing facility. No new parking will be needed as customers will be coming and going over a 12 hour period.

The town will also benefit from the added revenue generated from the tax on the new poker room, which could be used for several projects throughout the community.

Not only would the Orange Park Kennel Club benefit from the addition of the poker room but so would the surrounding businesses. Hotels, Gas Stations and Restaurants will see added traffic and in turn that will generate more income and added jobs of their own.

In conclusion facts are facts are facts. No problems have been reported in St. Johns County around the other poker room. Crime has not increased; there are no prostitutes or strip clubs popping up, so that argument is moot. If I wanted the government to be controlled by the RELIGION then I would move to Afghanistan, Iran or Iraq.

Marsha I had to post this because I keep rereading your comments on moral issues.  You say that for some of the opponents this is a moral issue.  While I do agree with you I have to ask about some of the "moral" upstanding Orange Park citizens that got up to speak on Tuesday.  I overheard something while in the room outside of the meeting and I just couldn't resist a little investigating.

 What I found actually shocked me.  Some of those "moral" people stood up and talked about moral issues.  Even though they have records in Clay and Jacksonville.  Some pretty serious records.  DUI's and solicitation for prostitution.  Now while I did not hear what the one that has a solicitation record had to say I did hear the one speaker that has a prior DUI conviction.  Shame on you guys that live in a glass house.

Did you know that to work in a Poker Room in Florida you must receive a license from the State of Florida as well as be fingerprinted and felony free?  The dog tracks employees must also be drug tested before they begin working at any of the facilities.

So Marsha is a "john" just a john and an alcoholic just an alcoholic?  Or should we just paint a prettier picture because they are our friends and neighbors?

DISCLAIMER:  I do realize that most of the speakers on Tuesday were "moral" upstanding citizens.

My blog was not meant to touch off a debate on morality,  to judge anyone else, nor be judged myself.  The suggestion was made that if one was against the poker room then they were just "uninformed" "without facts" and that is a reaction that happens here alot in MCS whether the topic is Poker Rooms or Hometown Democracy. When someone disagrees with another then they're "uninformed" "don't have all the facts" or the one I especially dislike  "it's too complex for you to understand"

My only point in that blog is not everyone uses the same source of information, or criteria to formulate an opinion or uses the same scale.

In going back and reading what I wrote again I believe that was fairly clear.

I have read the comments in this thread, and others about the hypocrisy that exists in the Religious Community and this may surprise some but I won't argue over that one either......it is unfortuantely very true, and it drove me away from attending Church myself 15yrs ago.  I owe that last straw on the camels back to the Ridgeview Baptist Church.