U.S. Jets turn back Russan Bombers - really! (who to wake up at 3 am?)

CCC,

Just a guess, but I would think it would be just a tad more difficult to wake up a 73 year old person, let alone expect him to collect his thoughts, make decisions, go to the can, etc.,  as oposed to a 60 or 47 year old person.  Heck, I'm only 59 & my wife says it's a pain to get me up at 3 AM.  Actually, I'm usually stirring at 3 anyhow, so no biggie.  On the good side, I'd rather have McCain than Romney or Huckabee.  I'm pretty sure that at least McCain wouldn't order military action because he talked to some unseen spirit in the sky.  Just a little 3 AM snack for thought.  JATFUR.

RichK

Lions and Tigers and BEARS oh my! Big whoop!

The US Navy and the Russian 'Bear' (used to be the Bear D) Bombers have been playing this game for more years than the current generation of reporters has been alive. Must have been a slow news day and someone thought this would be of significant interest to someone.

I can still remember 1967 when one of them flew bow to stern of the Hancock (you might have to look that one up in the Naval Archives) at an altitude of 200 feet with 4 F-4 Phantoms hanging under its wings.

The pilots always got along real well. They would exchange sign language to wish each other a good day.

To answer your question, I'm Ivory Soap sure that McCain probably exchanged a few hand signals with some of these Russians' predecessors so he knows how to play the game.

As to waking up Hillary at 0300, there isn't enough JD in world. She wouldn't even be good looking at closing time.

Mike Heemer

If you read my original blog, I didn't endorse anybody - well - directly.  I think this incident brings up a very real issue that must be dealt with in the road to the White House. 

 (Side Note to prevent this blog veering off - I know the left side loves to blame Bush for what other countries think of us - and frankly I (kind of like Bush) don't care for 1 - what the left thinks, or 2 - what other countries think.  History lesson - there have always been countries that hated the U.S.  Anybody remember Germany and Japan? - so, no need to bring Bush into this discussion, we are talking about the current potential Presidents - end of side note)

With that said and hopefully out of the way - I don't think we have to worry about McCain not waking up. 

Personally I worry more about Hillary rolling over and asking Bill what he thinks she should do: or Obama rolling over and asking his wife what he should do to ensure she will be "proud of this country" for the second time in her adult life. 

Those scenarios scare me a whole lot more than McCain collecting his thoughts and going to the john - which kind of go together by the way.

CCC,

Fair enough.  All kidding aside,  regardless of who answers the call, I think they'd do pretty much the same thing.  Get the report, get the military & security advisors & huddle in the Sit Room & start communicating to get the facts to make a decision.

Mike is right.  This kind of stuff has been going on for a very long time.  So long in fact, that it would not surprise me if there were standing orders on what to do, ie.  send planes up to verify & communicate.  I do have one question & you might not be able to answer.  It depends on how much info was in the story.  What kind of ship, where, was it alone or part of a task force?  How long did it take to get them on radar?  Just curious, but it is germane.  JATFUR.

RichK

As a former submariner, cat & mouse with Ivan helped pass the excruciatingly boring time under water;  you're right - must have been a slow news day, or maybe it was 'news' to some greenhorn editor.  Never hurts to remind people Ivan is still alive and kicking.  And they've already got THE bomb.

If 9-11 gets repeated, I want 73-yr old, former POW, former Navy pilot, white headed & wrinkled, shoulders permanently screwed up from torture, middle of the road Republican, veteran Senator John McCain sitting at the head of the table.  If I have to pick either Obama or Mrs. Bill - I'll have to go with Mrs. Bill.  I just think shes meaner, and frankly, has bigger . . . bigger . . . ah,heck, more guts.  At least she has been drug through the mud a few times - by her best friend too.  Obama with just over 2 years in the Senate, and some time in the Illinois State House?  Are you kidding?  I suppose he could inspire al-Qaida to stop attacking US.  Not.

I predicited way back when that if the 2 Dem's could get their ego's under control, Clinton-Obama would be a damn-near unbeatable ticket.  I just think the chance to change American presidential history would be too much for any Republican ticket to overcome.  One caller on NPR suggested a Clinton-Obama ticket would give the Dems the Oval Office for 16 years.  With the economy stuck in park (or maybe even reverse), Sen. McCain and whoever his running mate will be, along with Rush/Bill/RNC, better bring their A game, or it will be a sweep for the Dems - House, Senate & White House. (If McCain picks Crist, I will change my party affiliation before the sun goes down.)

I hope the rest of the World is paying attention to how this 'democracy' thing is supposed to work.  No bombs, no murders.  Just a lot of bickering and finger pointing and way-too-much prognosticating.  Let's see - Chavez/Venezuela or USA.  Another no brainer.

Finder/Solo/Bax - I agree with your comments on this must have been a slow news day, but when has that stopped news about Brittney's lack of, well -  you know.

Anyway, the point is not really a plane approaching a U.S. Warship (Nimitz by the way, now talk about the Bear flexing some muscle) - and Solo - carriers are never alone.  The Carrier group could have made scrap metal out of the aircraft real quick like - the point is a "what if?" that matches the Dem's TV ads last week -

"What if the phone rings - and who do you want answering the call?"

Not that anybody couldn't guess, but I too would want gravely voiced, tortured, mean as nails but 'in control' McCain answering.  Heck, the guy got nearly blown off his own carrier (Forrestal), not to mention his POW experiences.  Now, can somebody else without those experiences make a good CinChief? - sure, but not Obama or Clinton.

Now, I will admit if somebody held me down, tied me up, made me watch the View non-stop and drink decaf coffee - and forced me to decide who would be president between Clinton or Obama, I would go with Clinton.  Obama as president is like taking a first year teacher and making them Principal. 

These have been interesting threads, the choice for who sits in the White House and whether or not we should bring back the draft. I have far different opinions at this age than I did forty years ago.

I like everyone's comments on the 3 AM wake up call. Let me add a typical (for me) flip response. In case of an attack I would like a badass like McCain. Between Hillary and Barack we also have a badass, except that it is a choice of which one is which half of that word. :>)

As for the draft, I agree with the sentiment that it is pretty unfair to drag an eighteen year old from graduation to a foxhole. Especially when the eigthteen year old has finally reached an age where he could vote on the matter but still be denied a beer. Imagine being able to kill, marry, have a family but no beer. Pretty unfair in my book.

On the other hand, I also believe some sort of service is due this country. This country is magnificent despite the incompetents we have running it in the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches. That's what makes America gret. Knowing in this country any complete moron can grow up and buy an influential seat in government. I find the younger generations, (and it's scary knowing there are couple behind me now) although not bad people, are completely juvenile, spoiled brats in many instances and a stint in the service would go a long way to curing that. They have too much an attitude of "You Owe Me" and "What Have You Done For Me Lately" about them. Perhaps four years after college. This way, they get educated (such as it is) and have a four year party, then it's Grow Up Already, time. I think that's fair. And it doesn't necessaritly have to be in the military. Lord knows we don't need those whining COs mucking things up.

What do you think? Am I off base here? By the way, to the simpletons that think I am a Liberal, I suppose I am in line with most of the Libertarian outlook, I just won't have anything to do with getting illicit drugs being legalized. If anything, these days, Iam so disgusted with government that my Inner Anarchist is raging to get out.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

I want McCain answering the 3 a.m. call.  By POW experience alone he's my choice.  After spending time in a POW camp, what else can really scare you or rattle your nerves? 

Lily--loved your badass comment---I concur! And as a a small courtesy to your fellow bloggers, would you give us a heads up if you plan to cut loose your Inner  Anarchist?  I want to be in my bunker with my camcorder running!

Mike H...I thought they called those gestures  the "International sign of peace and love" 

In my military service Russian Bombers have actuauly penetrated US air space, Migs from Cuba still do from time to time. The fact is they are escorted away and the President never gets a 3 am call for this, he/she would not be called at all in these situations.

TRUTHHURTS

I know what you guys are talking about. We were chasing Russian subs up and down the east coast during the Cuban Missile crises.

Making them surface for air was a lot of fun. We gave them "hand" signals. :>) They were running diesels then.

 Those who give up freedom for security have neither.

OK, so I tried to use this as an example of the situation used in the Dem's TV ads last week, their tit for tat between the Changer Obama and Ready on Day One Clinton.   Tried to use it as a catalyst for discussion on who do you want to receive the 3 AM call. 

This blog has received several comments, paraphrasing here - that this happens all the time, they flew over me back in my day, etc...  Now allow me to be the Curmudgeon here for a second - I know.  I've been there.  Notice the paragraph in my original blog that "...for those of you with Navy time, you know this ... happens alot more than reported..."  Though I spent very little time on ships and most in the sand and other various far flung locales, I too saw the poking and prodding of our friends firsthand.  Made life interesting and it does give us a unique perspective on life.

Now - back to my point - lets just say for discussion sake that these bombers continued on course, lets just say the group commander called through, maybe the JOC at the Pentagon, Joint Chiefs - SecDef - President - get my point? 

The phone rings at 3 AM (maybe now 3:10) at the White House and a decision has to be made immediately - no consensus, no calling together folks, The Pres has a choice - splash the Ruskies or flash them the international sign for go away. 

Lets just say the planes continue and decide to fly right over the carrier, and drop a dummie round off the bow.  To use the Migs from Cuba example, lets say one of the pilots In this case, they would never make it back to Cuba in one piece - what now, who do you want on international TV explaining to the world that our planes just shot down a Cuban Mig or Russian bomber? 

Who do you want to answer the call and why?  So far, seems to be McCain has the edge on this blogosphere.

I have to agree with you CCC, I believe McCains experience and history would make him better equipted to handle those situations. I think I personaly would feel more comfortable if it was him answering the phone.

TRUTHHURTS

CCC,

Scroll back  to my reply, "Fair Enough."  Obviously, I don't have an "In" as far as procedures go.  But I would think that the natural order of things procedural would be available to whomever got the wake up call.  You can't make an informed decision without the necessary information.  That simple.  JATFUR.

RichK

CCC

On a side note Naval Comanders and Air Defense Senior Directors have the athourity to engage any target they feel has any hostile intent. The target would be destoryed, but the President would be notified imediately afterwards. At least thats the way it was back in the day. I believe it's still the same. It's a great resposiblity they hold.

TRUTHHURTS

TH Yes - regarding the rules of engagement - as I was typing I realized that for the most part, the decision would have been made in those scenarios.  That is why I threw in the "who do you want explaining to the world...?" part, in addition to the who do you want to make the decisions?  For the life of me, I can't image the great Changer trying to explain to the world why we just splashed a Russian bomber, I can only envision apologie, promises of investigations, hearings, and great gnashing of teeth.

Solo -  I didn't intend my reply above to irritate you, there are many cases that could unfold exactly as you painted.  Bring together the folks you hired to advise and make an informed decision.  My focus was on times when there is just not time, and the fact the ultimate decision rests with the big kahoona (or kahoonette).

I also did not intend to insult anybody by trying to nix the 'back in my day' talk, I do that myself from time to time.  I was just trying to refocus on who people want making the decisions, pulling the trigger if you will.

CCC,

I wasn't irritated in the least.  Sorry if I gave that impression.  I mean, back in my day, if we were irritated, we would say, "Gee whiz, dagnabit.  I'm irritated!"  Then we would commence to exchange opinions in a more meaningful, albeit, physical manner.  But I said, that was back in my day.

Besides, if your going to get your knickers in a knot just because someone gets irritated or because someone who is just so delicate & sahnsitahve, (my best Jim Backus impression) that they claim to be offended, you'll just get depressed.  Then you'll start wandering around the house in your bathrobe.  You'll start watching the soaps, sucking down martinis & bon bons & get fat, sassy & more depressed.  It's too crappy a day for that.  Besides, if you do that, you'll start to ignore all of us on the blogs & we just can't have that, can we?  So buck up sweet knees & carry on.  Carry forward.  Carry nation.  Catch my drift?  Semper Fi!  At ease.  Take a break & watch the gunney on male call, if he's still on.  JATFUR.

RichK

PS.  Just heard on NPR that there's a tornado warning out in Baker & it's moving east.  Roll 'em up & hook 'em ladies.

RK

CCC;

Basically the rules of engagement would take care of a lot of this. Like if the bomb bay doors even twitch you are not going to be flying for any longer than it takes to put a missile up your.....

However, I understand what you are saying. I still want McCain making those decisions not covered by the rules. 3 AM 3 PM, it makes not matter to me. I just think he'd do a better job.

If I'm going to the Super Bowl I what a Brett Favre, not the freshman quarterback at Neese HS (Obama).

As for HillBilly, we've already tried that one. Didn't like it then and wouldn't like now.

Mike Heemer

Uncle Rich,

WHAT are the ladies rolling up and hooking???  Never heard that one, 'splain it please.

Clayvoter,

It might, & probably does, go back farther than I know.  I got the saying from a morning AM radio host back in Chicago in the 50's & 60's by the name of Howard Miller.  The reference is to when ladies still wore nylons & garters & it was his tag line to get ready to start the day.  I guess by extension, it can mean getting ready for anything.  Hope that clears it up. 

RichK