JUSTICE PREVAILS

A link that may explain the whole thing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24245365/wid/11915773?GT1=31037

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice in Nov.

So do we now have six Commissioners or does someone lose their job?

http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice 7 Commissioners or 5

Her reinstatement was effective immediately.  She now has the upper hand of the situation and is entitled to back pay plus other expenses.  I wish her well.

So, with that action Mr Bradley has been removed from the commission. 

Alabayea your comment wasn't there when I started writing but Mikes was, how did yours get in there above Mikes.....must be gremlins or glasses that need cleaning! 

http://24.23.126.8/

Unless of course she just decides to take the money and run. That was an old song wasn't it? 

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice in Nov.

The Board meeting began today as if it were just another day at the BCC.  Not a word about the fact that Rob Bradley is off being a full-time candidate/town attorney/city attorney and Christy was back in her seat.

George Bush was making the introductions and when he said without fanfare, "Commissioner Fitzgerald," there was a group in the audience that cheered its approval.  Bush immediately ordered them removed from the Commission meeting room by a sheriff's deputy.

Less than three minutes into the meeting and folks have been ejected.  Back in my basketball referreeing days I had a pretty quick whistle, but I don't think I ever booted anyone in under three minutes.

Even after her fans were ejected, it looked like the smile couldn't be wiped off Christy's face with a 2x4.  Of course, if someone had just given me a check for $120,000 or so in back wages, I'd be smiling, too.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

We can only hope she takes the money and runs, or rides away into the sunset with her buddy, meets with other members of the OJ club, and writes her memoirs.  

She in no way represents District 1. 

She'll be laughing all the way to the bank. Especially when she hands her lawyer's bills over to the county for payment.

Wasn't she the Chair when she was booted? Maybe she should tell George she wants the Gavel back too.

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice in Nov.

I can't believe the cahuna's that this women has! Com. Fitzgerald is not and never has been a favorite of mine, however, she was bamboozeled and accused falsely of committing crimes. That would be awful. She has lost everything.

So, having said that, I have to give her kudos for not being intimidated by her peers and stepping back into her position. She had to know that by doing so, it would put her back into the spot light and open to public scrutiny. Maybe she really is a good public servant. I know way to many public servant if you will, that would have run with their tails between their legs.

I wouldn't equate someone moving on after something like this running with their tail between their legs.

Too much bad blood. I don't question her right to be there but if she chose to walk away I would think that she realized sometimes bridges are burned and it's best to move on and that she considered what was good for the County and not herself alone.

I'm not saying it's bad that she stays, not saying it's good either. It's just that I would see no shame in her taking her back pay if the law says she's entitled and just moved on.

In her shoes I would probably come back long enough to say I did it and then I would move on to something else.  Life is too short to live with the crap she will live with under the scrutiny of the public eye.  I can't help but have concern that her return will interfere in County business somehow.

I think I would be off on a nice long vacation.

http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for Choice in November  7 Commissioners or 5

Cookie;

I'm not sure I understand your statement: She has lost everything.

It was a part time job. One that pays darn well, but a part time job none the less.

I don't call that cajones. I call that chutzpah. 

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice in Nov.

I didn’t know that much about Ms Fitgerald to really know if she was a good person or not. Like Will Rogers said, "All I know is what I read in the paper." For a period of time you couldn’t pick up that paper without reading something she was being accused of. Like a lot of people, I had my doubts about her innocence but after exercising her Constitutional rights she was found Not Guilty on all counts. Since the court said she was innocent, who am I to question? I will say that she is guilty of one thing, she put herself in a position for people to construe that she was up to no good. Those who live in the spotlight have to be aware that more people than your neighbor is watching. I guess if you lay down with dogs you are going to get a few fleas and there are no true friends in politics.

Mike Mann--there was NO ejection at the BCC meeting.  Just George pushing his  weight gravel around.  The deputy did not even get out of his seat.

Mike H-loved the thought of Comm. Fitzgerald asking for the gavel back, that would really tie ole' George in a knot.

As far as Christy "losing everything" life is not just about money.  Even though she has been found NOT GUILTY, NOT GUILTY, NOT GUILTY (three trials, three verdicts) there still will be the "behind the hand" snickering, the snide remarks like "the Queen" and "OJ'  (real classy CCC) She will never regain her good name, her family has suffered. 

I always am amazed when people get the results they want (in court or otherwise) it is fair, but if they do not like the results/verdict it was not fair.  Human nature is a funny thing.

Amen to everything you said.  Had Fitzgerald been sentenced to death for these crimes, these same complainers would still be saying Fitzgerald pulled strings or her Queeness or her OJ'ness.  

KUDOS again ClayVoter. 

The only thing better than seeing justice prevail, 3 acquittals and a reinstatement, was seeing ol George B sitting there with a bewildered look. 

When is the 'rerun' of todays BCC Meeting on TV.......just gotta see ole George with a bewildered look . 

Thanks

According to an article in the T/U 'impossible to tell if there is a significant expense to the county'.

Let's see, 2 years at $61+K each, and about 16.5% to the retirement fund is around $150K. And let us not forget the legal fees we are probably going to end up paying.

Forget the legal fees. $150K plus or minus is significant to my budget. But then that's my money not someone else's.

A couple hundred thousand here, a couple hundred thousand there and pretty soon we're talking real money.

Funny how that works when it doesn't come out of your personal checking account.

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice in Nov.

Mike H,

If my memory serves me well (and that is hit or miss lately) wasn't it Durwood who spearheaded the drive for the Grand Jury investigation of Christy? Maybe we should ask Durwood and the CTLAC to foot the bill for this most recent legal goosechase? 

CV;

I think I may have been too clever by half as my Brit freinds say. My post wasn't so much about Christy, though it is in this thread, as it was the statement by the city attorney.

His definition of significant seems to be significantly different than mine.

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice in Nov.

“I said that Harry Shorenstein would leave a hole in the indictment large enough you could drive a train through I just didn’t know it would be sideways.” Durwood Smith, News4Jax.com, April 22, 2008.

Durwoods remark wasn't so much classic as predicitable.  He did not like the veridict/results so "it wasn't fair" or something wasn't done right.  If the whole thing wasn't such a waste of taxpayer dollars,Durwood's sound bite may have even been funny. 

Mike H--I agree about the county attorney.  Lets just hope he used a  poor choice of word(s) with the choice of "significant"  I would say the total monies will be past significant and approaching "boatload" in our household. 

CV and PBinCC

Everybody has their opinion.  If the worst thing you read about Christy on this blog or anywhere else is her being referred to as the Queen or as a member of the OJ club, then things are good in the world.  

There is much worse that could be said about somebody who let pride blind themselves to their job and personal responsibilities.

As far as her "losing everything."  She made her choices - nobody forced her to pal around with Fester like they were in junior high school.  You play with fire, you get burnt. 

I do feel sorry for her family, but the no consitituency or grand jury caused her to make the wrong PERSONAL choices.

CCC- you are entitled to your opinion, everyone is.  However, I stand by my comment, calling anyone "The Queen" and putting them in "the OJ club" is also "junior high school" (in my opinion). 

The bottom line is: She was found NOT GUILTY (three times) by a jury of her peers in the best justice system in the free world.  I think it is in the best interest of the county for everyone to MOVE ON. 

Angela,

I have to agree with you about the power that old Durwood possess. If he had such power, he'd have a red light at the intersection of Moody and ???

I never remember Durwood spearheading an investigation concerning Ms. Fitzgerald. Now I do remember Durwood spearheading an investigation concerning mismanagement in the county. Durwood didn't get to do the investigation but the State Attorney's Office did the investigation. Durwood didn't come back with charges that indicted Ms. Fitzgerald. Again that was the State Attorney's Office that did the investigation, convened a grand jury which indicted Ivey and Fitzgerald. That was based on the information from the State Attorney not Durwood.

I never knew Durwood had such power in Clay County that he could manipulate an investigation, a grand jury, and a State Attorney all at one time.

I'm still working on the facts like in the board minutes the COMMISSIONERS voted to dump the stuff in the landfill. But none of them were charged. Ivey's charged for doing what the Commissioners voted for him to do and he is being charged.

Regardless of what has been the outcome of the investigations this has cost the taxpayers well over 9 million dollars to clean up their mess. The added expenses to have 3 trials against Ms. Fitzgerald. The cost of 2 Commissioners pay for the time it has taken to work out these charges. Because we paid Thrasher and Bradley to fill the position and now Fitzgerald will get paid for the same position.

I think the State Attorney has made some very poor decisions. I think they are solely to blame for all that has happened good or bad in the county. As far as Durwood, I can't even imagine that he could have the power to manipulate this whole situation. Yet people want to direct the blame toward him.

Human nature is a funny thing.

Agree with you CV - calling her the Queen and referring to the OJ club is Junior Highish on my part.

The big difference - I'm not a commissioner.  Elected officials need to remember they are held to a higher standard.  That their cell phone calls ARE public record. They don't get the luxury of acting junior highish and not paying the price, we do.  They don't get the luxury of acting like they rule the county singlehandedly from their throne and not paying the price.  

I actually could care less she has been re-instated, good for her.  I honestly hope she can rebuild her life, learn from this experience and move on. 

But to blindly hide our heads in the sand and say the legal system worked is to overlook her actions that led to where we are right now.  It would be a shame to forget how this all happened in the first place.  Both for her and for her consitituents.

That's Moody and Bliss They have a caution light there now he would like a full light.

Justice prevailed for OJ too......

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

You seem so interested in the activity on Fitzgerald's BCC cell phone...yet no one seems to care the George B...routinely disreagrds instructions to USE HIS BCC email for BCC business but he continues to use personal email for BCC business and claims "client priviledge" therefore not making his BCC business on email public.

 We have Ms. Ricks with the Clerk's office cited for thousands of personal and political email on COUNTY time...yet nothing is done, heck now she is runnning for an elected office. 

Clerk of Court Jett is fighting action in Federal Court and you never hear anyone calling him the King, or OJ...

It appears as if your position is clearly personal.  If Fitzgerald had not returned to her position, lets see...she would have been called a coward, chicken, or something else.  I honestly believe that all you Fitzgerald bashers would be complaining even if she had been given the death penalty.  Funny how all of the local print medias had articles about the upcoming trial...and yet not one of them printed a story about the acquittal.

Fitzgerald has been acquitted 3 times by 3 different juries.  She has been reinstated, as the law required.  Move on, get over it, and concentrate you effort on any one of the crooked politicians or one running for office.

She was found not guilty which means that either the state attorney's office didn't do their job properly or there was not enough evidence to overshawdow "beyond a reasonable doubt".  She's back on the job, so what, we knew this would come if she was not found guilty.  She's on until nov. and then she's out.  There is no legal way around not paying her the salary she was elected to earn and now there is no legal way other than a worthless petition to oust her from the job.  

What's the real issue here, is it personal? If it is, bash her all you want, but i doubt it will hurt her reputation and in the end she wins.  Sure she'll be on the job making decisions that affect the county, but it could be worse, we could still have a person on the commission making decisions based on pure political motives to be elected at large............no, no, no politicans wouldn't do that.

As many blogs that state how money was wasted and over spent on these trials, almost as if it were a joke and completely not neccessary....Just how many of you are republicans and had no problems with the Federal government blowing money on determining if Clinton had "sexual relations" with Monica?

No matter who you are or what part of your life a situation occurs, it is human nature to have positive or negative views on what you prefer or what YOU think is right. These kinds of conversations will always occur and "entertain" others. Will there ever be "Peace on Earth"?  We can't even keep Peace amongst ourselves.

Bottom line is that the law prevails. Hope all concerned Bloggers get out and Vote if they want change within the system.

Yankeetransplant;

You are absolutely right about all concerned bloggers needing to get out and vote. The other thing they need to do before they vote is to get a copy of the CTLAC petition and sign it.

Give the voters the opportunity to rid ourselves of a self serving move to install two more commissioners on the board. We may not have been able to get rid of Christy for good but we can get rid of the two at-large seats before they are filled.

Foxx;

Ah my fine young voter. Nice to hear from you again. Very astute of you to notice that it could be worse.

It just isn't good when your choices are bad, worse and worst all rolled into one because the candidate is running unopposed.

There sure is a lot of money backing that candidate isn't there? Makes one sit up and notice if you are really concerned about where county government is heading. More does not always mean better.

Sign that petition!

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice in Nov.

There are really two things that I am still chuckling about and I believe are funny, Durwood’s comment about driving a train sideways through the hole in the indictment and King George having to work with Christy on the board. He always uses the term sour grapes when someone does not agree with him. Well ole’ George sallow them sour grapes and make the best of them they are going to be around until November.

If Durwood wants to find out who created the "loophole" in the indictment, all he has to do is look at Boss Hogg Bush and Rickster the Trickster Beseler.

Together, they created and executed an environment through skill and help from the press, which brought persecution through prosecution of political adversaries.

I eagerly await the release of the documents associated with this fiasco. When did this start? I think it started when the Rickster was Chief Investigator for the SAO. Who conducted the interviews? Were they conducted by an SAO Investigator turned Sheriff's Office Lt?When were they conducted? Who was interviewed? Let us look at the reports/supplements generated if there are any.

Given the monies paid to her temporary replacements, her back pay and legal fees, along with any remedies for the civil suit she should file, the taxpayers will be hurt.

How can you claim to be a fiscal conservative and stand by and watch your political agenda ruin us?

Both of you were basking in the glory of your planned accomplishments despite what it was doing to the County and its citizens. I do not see either of you smiling now.

Wondered where you were. Knew this one couldn't slip by without it being the fault of the Sheriff or some of his people.

Together, they created and executed an environment through skill and help from the press, which brought persecution through prosecution of political adversaries.

Fitzgerald and Ivey were political adversaries of Bush and Beseler? I must have missed that off ramp. Care to enlighten me?

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice (5 or 7) in Nov.

Finder

Being a new resident of Clay County sometimes has a disadvantage in local good ol boys politics. Mr. Ivey was caught using a homestead exemption on a rental property prior to the investigations into the illegal dumping. He was forced to pay back money to the county. Evidently someone reported him.

Let me share an email that was written by a Commissioner to a resident of our county. To me it's quite an eye opener. This email was written before the investigation into the illegal dumping. A citizen concerned with actions by the prior Public Works Director contacted then Commissioner McGovern:

From: Sara Spurrier [mailto:SKS@PD4DUVAL.COJ.NET] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:36AM

To Patrick McGovern

Subject: Public Works Director

Pat

As a voter in this county, and as one of your supporters. I must tell you I am very disappointed in your actions regarding you "hand -picked" Public Works Director.

This man has broken the law. He was hired by the Board and should be responsible to the Board for llegal actions. Please make me understand why, with Mr. Ivey's history of mistreating employees, you felt he was so professional that he should represent Clay County as Public Works Director!! In your eyes, does longevity outweight professionalism? Is this now going to be the norm for department heads from "Our Elected Board"? What are the Job Qualifications for?

I have lost confidence in Mrs. Fitzgerald and now you as well.

Sincerely, Sara Spurrier

His response:

Sara:

Arthur Ivey has performed admirably as Public Works Director. He has, however, made two mistakes. First, he maintained a Homestead Exemption for many years on a property that he used as rental property. As soon as I learned of his mistake. I admonished Arthur; he assured he that as soon as he could get a second mortgage to repay the debt, he would do so. He has repaid the County every cent from that transgression on Nov 17th. His biggest mistake, though, was to support Debbie Terry against George Bush in the last election! He has a right to support any candidate he chooses, but paybacks are he...

Arthur has been PWD for over two years. Clay County has never had a better one, in my opinion. And, to my knowledge, the employees are the most productive, and happy, as I've seen in the past twelve years.

Her response:

Thanks for your reply.

You have a very interesting theory on Mr. Ivey's "BIGGEST MISTAKE''!! I was not aware of who he supported an am disappointed that you think that is a reason to break the law for 10 years!! Are you saying if he had supported George Bush he could continue to steal from Clay County for maybe another 10 years? Because he is a department head he should be able to play by a different set of rules? Does this apply to all department heads? Since I am not "in" politics and "only" a Clay County resident and voter for the past 30 years, my world and decisions do not revolve around "political games". I am very concerned that decisions are being made because of "political games" and this is not acceptable.

Sara

These emails transpired in Dec of 04 after the Public Works audit in June of 04 where no action was taken by the Commissioners. In March of 05 the FBI and State Attorney's office shut down the landfills. In April of 05 Mr. Ivey resigned.

Some very interesting theories in the county. I'm not certain if you remember the prior Sheriff and the current Sheriff and how that came about.

Very interesting things happen in Clay County!

Gosh, did not know Sara was so involved in things back then.

Anyway, there is an interesting "urban legend" as to why the Rickster really wanted to prosecute Ivey.

Long ago the "old guard" (Beseler, Ivey, Hardy, Short, Lancaster, etc.) boys were raised together in GCS, but on "different sides of the track." He never interacted with the locals because they grew tired of his attitude of money is everything and I have plenty.

The Rickster went to the police academy and brought his superior attitude to the GCPD. Seems Rick was going to make sure everybody knew he was in charge now and that those who had not succumbed to his superiority would now pay. 

Reportedly, one night he stopped one of the old guard for speeding. The violator exited the vehicle and was subjected to a loud, caustic, demeaning, tirade from the Rickster about "speeding through my town."

It was obvious that the Rickster was peeved and the violator reminded him that they knew one another and that for him to either write the ticket or let him go. The Rickster used poor judgement by going into high gear with a verbal assault that Patton would have been proud of.

The violator reportedly listened to a gutfull of this nonsense and then proceded to slap the Rickster down on his butt. The violator asked if he wanted to do anything about what had just happened but Rick just sat there.

The violator went about his business and nothing was done until years later.

Who was the violator???????

Angela:

Thanks for the info. As always you provide excellent public records. I still haven't figured out how but I'm always impressed.

As you said the new guy on the block needs input and you certainly provided that.

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice (5 or 7) in Nov.

Finder I think they had a song one time.

And they say you don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off an 'ole Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with him

That's fine Fitzgerald was found not guilty and I've already blogged Ivey his ticket. If he can't find it. I'll blog it again.

It's in the minutes.

Love the tune Angela...yes I missed Ivey's ticket...blog it again

You need to go to the BCC Minutes dated 5/13/97. In those minutes you'll find where the Commissioners voted on the board floor to dump stuff in the landfill.

c. Approval to dispose of items not sold at Public Auction through Florida sheriff’s Boys Ranch, other charitable organizations, or place in landfill.

Now during the investigations it was noted that an increase of stuff being dumped in the landfill happened within the pass 10 years. It was noted Ivey was the cause. I think differently. Because in 1997 they voted to dump whatever was not disposed of at Public Aution or charitable organization should all go to the landfill.

I will asked who authorized the illegal dumping Ivey or the Commissioners?

Now if you look at the minutes our fine attorney Mr. Scruby was in attendance on that date as well. If this had been illegal don't you think he should have informed the Commissioners that taking that action would be considered illegal. Then advise them not to take that action. Did he advise them of that action, no. Was all that dumping illegal, yes. We just paid 9 million to clean it up! If the Commissioners under the advise of the attorney voted to take that action was it Ivey's fault or theirs its in the landfill? Should Ivey question the attorney and the Commissioners or should he do what he was instructed to do by the county?

Now we all know that Ivey was considered not to be qualified for his position. Yet the Commissioners decided to hire him for that position anyway. Would you say that was Ivey's fault for accepting the position or the Commissioners for agreeing to hire him regardless of the fact he lacked the qualifications.

Tell Ivey to get the minutes and show them to Hank. He'll know what to do with that information.

Angela;

Do you think he is going to be found Not Guilty on all charges and we'll end up having to give him some or all of his back pay? 

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice (5 or 7) in Nov.

Finder I can't predict how a jury will decide in this matter. I can provide some facts about the situation based off the records, which I did. But then I guess that's what the jury will have to use (facts on record) to make their determination as well. Then they will have to make the reasonable doubt rule apply. The burden is on the State to prove their case. Mr. Ivey just has to defend his actions.

If you researched cronyism would you say that's Ivey fault or the people making that appointment?

Competence equates with being qualified to me and I think both the BCC and Mr. Ivey are responsible.  Another question to ask is did Mr Ivey make the attempt to become qualified/competent once he accepted the position?

I am Governed by "Competency rules" If I am not qualified to do a particular job I have an obligation to say so. It doesn't mean I can't do it, so long as I take the steps necessary in order to produce a competent report and state what was done in order to achieve that.  I think anyone in Public Service ought to have that same obligation, along with a few ethical requirements like not misleading the Public.  

http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for Choice in Nov, 7 Commissioners or 5

Mr. Ivey wasn't required the BCC lower the standards so he could get job. Another smart move by our elected officials. Along with voting to illegally dump stuff.

His requirement wasn't we hire you and then you work to become competent. They lower the standards of their own hiring policy and hired him.

Arthur Ivey will not be entitled to any back pay.  He was not suspended from office when he was arrested.  He had already resigned from his position as Public Works Director.  It was the same day former County Manager Bob Wilson also resigned.

When the County Commission lowered its own official requirements in order to hire a grossly unqualified crony, it was an invitation to trouble.  That trouble was once explained away by former County Commissioner Pat McGovern as, "The truth is there are two Arthur Iveys."

One problem with McGovern's theory is that the two Arthur Iveys together didn't add up to one competent Public Works Director.  The most important hole in McGovern's theory about what caused that whole dumping scandal is that it totally ignores his role and that of the other Commissioners, one of whom was recently reinstated.

It's pretty easy to sit back and point at Ivey's lack of competence.  That should have been expected.  It was the incompetence of the County Commission that created that entire corrupt spectacle.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

Well said Mr. Mann!

Why should the citizens expect anything different from the outcome of hiring people that are not qualified and then expect a different result? That should apply to the Commissioners as well.

And as far as the freight train being able to go sideways into the hole in the indictment as Durwood stated.

Let's just review some of the warning signs back in 2002 in the minutes:

Assistant County Attorney Moss gave the Board an update on Bellamy Road, stating the following: She contacted the Putnam County Administrator and he stated that they intend to pay for their portion of the paving project through the creation of a Municipal Services Benefit Unit, but they will not begin their public hearing process until July. They have the money in hand and will reimburse themselves with the MSBU funds. The cost for this project has been anticipated to be about $350,000, with Putnam County committing $200,000 as their portion. The Public Works Department has determined that they can do this project in house as opposed to bidding the project out to a contractor and Florida Statute 255.20 requires that the Board hold a public hearing to determine whether it is in the best interest of the County as a whole to do the project in house.

Commissioner Bush expressed concern with Clay County employees working in Putnam County and said the job should be bid out. Arthur Ivey from Public Works stated that if the project were bid out the cost would be $500,000.

After discussion, Commissioner Lancaster moved, seconded by Commissioner Lassiter, and carried 4-1, with Commissioner Bush dissenting, to approve the advertising for a public hearing at a Time Certain for the second meeting in June.

Cronyism exists when the appointer and the beneficiary are in social contact; often, the appointer is inadequate to hold his or her own job or position of authority, and for this reason the appointer appoints individuals who will not try to weaken him or her, or express views contrary to those of the appointer.

Cronyism is self-generating, cronyism then begets a culture of cronyism. This can only be apprehended by a comprehensive, effective, and enforced legal code, and empowered government agencies who can effect prosecutions in the courts.

I need to stop here are I'll need to start a State Attorney Blog.

Let me show you some differences here. Remember the blog about Mike Taylor who's running for Sheriff and him being the lead agent in the investigation of the Dept of Corruption that was formerly known as the Dept of Corrections. Some high ranking officials were indicted and are now serving time in Federal Prison. Cronyism was cited as was many other isms in that investigation.

Cronyism can only be apprehended by a comprehensive, effective, and enforced legal code, and empowered government agencies who can effect prosecutions in the courts.

In the case of the Dept of Corruption the low level people were fired. The high level people prosecuted. As it should be.

I just don't see that happening in our County. Unless I missed something here.

My Power Point project of who is zooming who just blew up. 

Thanks! Lots to digest in a latest threads. 

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice (5 or 7) in Nov.