Back To The Beltway

We've discussed the Shands issue and the Brannen Field issue here before.  To me, and I'm sure there will be dissent, bringing this public is only to soften the blow of announcing, "Hey!  They won't have to pay tax while socking it to you.  Giving them a profit is the only way to get the road built now and not 15 yrs from now."  That's why the Shands was negotiable, and that is too small a sticking point in a billion dollar project.

 After all, just because your money is involved,, you don't know best how to spend it.

Lily,

Great post & thanks for the two links.  I guess there are those in government, local or federal, who just haven't figured it out yet.  Regardless how we get squeezed, we just don't like getting squeezed at all.

I'm with the reporter @ phone numbers.  I don't give mine out.  If the person behind the cash register starts to explain, I don't get angry or frustrated.  I give them one of two numbers.

1.  312.321.3000 or, 2.  773.404.2827.  The first is for the CHICAGO Sun Times & the second is for the marketing department for the CHICAGO CUBS.  I haven't had any complaints yet.  JATFUR.

RichK

Thanks Lily for the blog and the links.

If you were a private business attempting to pull some type scam on the citizens such as the attempt to make the citizens pay for a road 2 times. Then not pay property taxes and make us foot the bills for their continued growth from the Beltway. Not to mention the perks we have already paid for land donations. You'd get arrested.

No wonder all these private businesses are so happy to link up with government. It shields their assets and puts the squeeze on us.

When driving to NY state to visit our family, we usually drive through PA on I-81.  Last year, we made the mistake of being in a time situation because of a family event and it was important for us to reach our desitination by 4:00 pm or shortly after.  North of Scranton, Rt. 81 was CLOSED for no reason, and there was no warning such as a large flashing sign - just a barricade and detour sign at an exit.  It took all the interstate traffic through small PA towns (I bet the residents were thrilled) and there was no end in sight.  Finally, my husband saw a semi go off in another direction on what seemed to be an access road, so we followed.  When we reached the end of the access road, there were traffic controllers there who turned us around and told us to take the first right turn, which surprisingly took us back on on to I-81 north.  We were the only car on the highway for some time and we kept looking around waiting either to fall off an unfinished highway or for a patrol car to come screaming up behind us. 

Nothing bad happened but we were delayed by two hours for whatever reason - we could see no heavy equipment, no lights and sirens, nothing to indicate why all of the sudden the interstate was closed.  With any warning at all, we could have taken the PA Turnpike around that whole mess.  When we finally arrived in NY, a friend who lives in PA informed us that those things happen all the time now that the highway system is privatized, because they don't have enough employees who know what they are doing.  The private company fired all the State workers and hired their own.

We're making that trip again in two weeks and you can bet that just before we leave I'll be printing a AAA Trip Tik this time.  If I'd done that last year, we could have avoided that situation - I think!

I know this didn't happen in Florida, but it's an example of what can happen when privateers take over and don't have to give up anything in return - such as paying property taxes.

Link to 7-2=5 petition: http://24.23.126.8/Petition.pdf

Watch Tallahassee pass some law that facilitates a free pass for not only the beltway but others in the future.

It seems to me before we build something else to take care of we need to take care of what we already have.  Did anyone else see Rob Bradley on tv last night campaigning for this for the good of the county?  "it's going to cost more later then it costs now" he says.  Duh.......so will the failing roads and deficient bridges and schools that are too small before the ground is ever broken.  What about those "cost more in the future" items??????

I'd like to buy a new Escalade as well, it will cost more in 20yrs then it does now but my budget has no room for such things right now so I drive and maintain my paid off 12yr old car while I pay two sets of taxes in Clay County.  

http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for Choice in Nov 7 Commissioners or 5

I don't know Rob Bradley and I don't know many of his plans should he be elected to the Commission as it's titular head. But, if he is for this beltway we need to either have a second choice or at least send a message.

Here is my thought. Assuming no  one runs against him which proves the majority does not care, the loyal opposition should at least make a statement letting him know not everyone is on board. In that spirit and in the interests of not spending a cent on that statement, I would like to get as many people as possible to do a write in candidate. Rather than go the route of Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck, I am going to write in Ben Chucklebutt. Imagine the uproar should Ben receive a substantial amount of votes. We could not be accused of subverting the process as all that is necessary is Rob's personal vote for himself to win. I had thought about running myself but when I inquired it seems one must set up a bank account and fill out all kinds of forms to account for it. Too much a waste of time for me. Plus I don't believe in asking people for money. Mr. Mann, I am sure, could elaborate on the bureaucracy and headaches involved with the process.

Since I just want to send a message, this seems to be the most painless way. Another suggestion might be to write in an actual person but that actual person could emulate William Tecumseh Sherman. That would take all the fun out of it.

I am also considering Shirley Gigglepanties for a write in against Harold Rutledge. I am toying with creating entire biographies and platforms for my candidates depending on the interest generated here. I also have way too much time on my hands. Despite that, I think it is still more valuable doing this than bureaucratic red tape. I'll bet you all feel the same. 

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Lily,

If Ben Chucklebutt marries Shirley Gigglepants would she hyphenate her name?

I pledge my vote to Shirley Gigglepants-Chucklebutt.

I like your idea Lily. I have thought a none of the above would be a good write in too. I think if none of the above ran for president they would win too.

Lily - thanks for the update & links.  I missed all news stories about this issue.  I probably should write a new blog about my comment, but since I'm here with a very intelligent group of bloggers, and this sort of ties in with the Beltway, here it goes.

First, Kevin Clark's root canal analogy (2nd link) was appropriate.  They're never fun, but if done correctly they solve a very real (and painful) problem.  The new beltway around Jacksonville connecting 2 very heavily traveled interstate highways becomes a necessity due to an ever increasing amount of traffic.  The world can continue without the bypass, and all those cars can continue to clog up traffic in and around downtown Jacksonville.  I suppose another solution could be even more lanes on 95.  But, as you all know, by-passes around urban centers is a very common traffic management technique.  As the urban center continues to grow, and traffic into and around it continues to grow, another by-pass is added.

Here we GROW again.  First, I-295.  Next, the Outer Beltway (I-395?).  If not the new by-pass, then other transportation infrastructure improvements that are necessary - not optional - because of more people.  People that don't like being "squeezed" for taxes or tolls or anything else. 

"We" voted to reduce revenues from property taxes, urged on by the biggest politician in Fla. Gov. Crist, who then promptly submitted a budget to the Fla. Legislature that requires MORE revenues to balance.  What a guy.  So, what's a government to do?  It needs more money to meet the needs of an ever-increasing population (and I mean a FOREVER increasing population), and the population doesn't want to hear about it.  They turn to business.  Privatize it.  Then, "it" (prison, highway, etc.) gets done in a business-lean fashion without all the political bureaucracy, but must be paid for still.  Tolls, fees, charges of some kind.  Now - the population is not happy because some business is daring to do what businesses do, and try to make a profit.

The "root" of the problem is people.  More of them.  Despite what some think, I would be perfectly happy if not another business of any kind were ever opened.  Not another house built anywhere.  Not another ugly neon sign erected anywhere.  Not another road built anywhere.  But, as long as the net growth rate stays + instead of - , all of the above will continue to happen.  And someone has got to pay for it.

We're either going to have accept this fact and pay our fair share via taxes, tolls, fees, charges OR we can reduce the human growth rate on mothership Earth.  I heard something recently on NPR that said if "we" would limit ourselves to a one-child policy, the Earth's population would begin to shrink and in just a few decades it would return to 18th century levels. (There is actually a book written about this issue - sorry I don't remember the title/author.)

We all love to bitch & moan about "growth" and its consequences, but I'm curious - is anyone willing to accept a one-child population growth management plan?

Hi Bax - nice to hear from you again. 

My question is simple:  How does the proposed Outer Beltway help to alleviate the congestion on Rt. 17 from Green Cove Springs, north to Jax and I-295 through Orange Park and on Blanding Blvd S to I-295?  I've always been confused about that and hope you will be able to clarify that for me. 

Thanks,
Judy

Link to petition 7-2=5: http://24.23.126.8/Petition.pdf

Bax wrote: We're either going to have accept this fact and pay our fair share via taxes, tolls, fees, charges OR we can reduce the human growth rate on mothership Earth.  I heard something recently on NPR that said if "we" would limit ourselves to a one-child policy, the Earth's population would begin to shrink and in just a few decades it would return to 18th century levels.

Bax, as always you have done another terrific job here in cyberspace. Please start a new thread on these subjects you have raised. This is the type of philosophical discussion I crave. No pointing fingers, no name calling and enough views to exercise my remaining little gray cells. Population control is definitely a necessity if we are to survive as a species. There are plenty of points I would like to raise on this subject and even more tangentially.

The only point, I would take exception to on the above first statement which is germane to this particular blog isI do not believe a private enterprise which eventually will have the only say in prices for a toll road (as opposed to a state run toll road) should be exempt from property taxes. The Wonder Wizards of the FDOT seem anxious to forfeit any responsibiltuiy due to a lack of a coherent plan.

As an aside to population control, instituting a one child law, philosophically, would be good but unfortunately completely unenforceable. However, in a perfect world (somewhere out there in another galaxy) could I follow the ideals of the ludicrous Kyoto Treaty and sell my right to having a child as I never did procreate? How much could I get for that? :>)

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

I didn’t know the little world of Clay county totally revolved around Green Cove Springs and downtown Orange Park. There seems to be a few people that live in the outer reaches of this county and the population is growing there too. From the northeast corner of the county to the southwest is over 50 miles. The housing market may be stymied in most cities but new construction still continues here. New houses can’t all be built along US-17. Since most of the population of this county seems to meet daily along US-17 or Blanding & 295, wouldn’t it be intelligent to expedite new routes to move traffic in and out of the county? Maybe we could pay for new roads by placing parking meters along Blanding near 295 for the people who sit there waiting for the lights to change.

Did anyone note the updated T-U story this morning regarding the insidious Beltway? This time they quote the opportunistic Rob Bradley who pretty much wants a piece of this pie by bribing potential investors with the promise of a free lunch in exempting whomever the investors may be with a tax exemption. Apparently a judgement from up on high is immaterial to him. Does anyone else agree that we REALLY need a second choice in the near coronation of this candidate?

"Mike Heemer where are you now? / Don't you care about your sons and daughters"

Run, Mike, Run!

(Apologies to Mike Heemer and Steppenwolf) :>)

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

I have but one comment to make in line with lily Run,Mike,Run!