More & More of a Good Thing

Bax,

Great subject.  I don't have any facts to speak of.  But doing some deep thinking while trying to avoid that notorious pain in my eye, I came up with a few thoughts to share with you.

The closest & most recent thing I can think of is what China mandated a while back on the # of children people could have.  I don't know if it's still in effect or how effective it was.  But that was a mandated process, something I don't think we'll see any time soon.

The alternative is even harder.  You would need a number of things.  The first, we already have.  The statistics, facts, figures, projections & possible scenarios of continued non-regulated population increase.  What we don't have are people who see the larger picture, the understanding of exactly what that picture would mean in all of its ramifications, a societal mindset of considering something larger than itself & the will to carry through with any reasonable suggestion.

Off the top of my head, I can think of a few obstacles.  A number of legal issues, Constitutional issues, religious considerations, & implementation procedures to name a few.  Then there's the people factor.  There is always the people factor if for no other reason than we are dealing with people.  Some are just plain irresponsible.  Some are criminal. Some are apathetic.  Some are selfish.  They haven't changed for thousands of years & I don't see any reason to expect them to change now or in the near future.  That might not sound like much on paper, but I can see it as overwhelming if ever put to our society.

I hope we have some input from our fellow bloggers on this issue.

Now on the lighter, slightly depraved side.  While typing this out, I couldn't stop thinking of the movie, "Soylent Green."  Remember that one?  Hey!  It's not easy being me.  JATFUR.

RichK

Solo write: The closest & most recent thing I can think of is what China mandated a while back on the # of children people could have.  I don't know if it's still in effect or how effective it was.  But that was a mandated process, something I don't think we'll see any time soon.

Back a few years ago when the world's people counters did there thing and pretty much agreed we hit the 6 billion mark for the planet, China issued a statement that because of their strict population control measures, that number had been delayed by a decade or so. I don't recall the statement exactly.  

One side bit of information is that although one child per couple is the policy for their crowded urban centers, the agricultuiral areas are allowed two children. Curiously, since this policy was adopted, China has also become a major exporter of babies along with Korea and Russia. So, how well do the policies work? I would guess they are not as successful as they would have us believe. Personally, a ZPG is something I have always embraced. As a matter of fact, someone owes me one. :>) Going back to the movie, Idiocracy, one can pretty much see that we are doomed whether we embrace ZPG or not.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Soylent Green. Now there was a Government/Company that knew how to serve people. 

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice (5 or 7) in Nov.

Mike,

Nice one dude.  How @ the old episode from the Twilight Zone,  "How Best To Serve Man."  this must be scik Saturday or something.  I have to get going.  The CUBS are on & I'd like to see them win, for a change.

RichK

Solo;

I do try to get in on something other than politics once in a while. 

Congratulations on the game today! Go Cubies! 9-3 right? They are cetainly doing better than my X home team the Padres. 

So, what do you think? This news article going to put some knickers in a knot?

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=108462

Jacksonville is normally known as the "river city." But now, the city has a new title.
The national magazine, The Advocate, named the city one of the "top five emerging cities for gay and lesbians."

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice (5 or 7) in Nov.

Mike,

Once again, great topic.  I never considered you a one topic person.  Heck, even I venture into areas other than politics & religion.

Oh yeah.  I read the article in the TU & can't wait to see the letters to the editor &/or the rants & raves section.  One must have some common sense & realise that this area is heavily populated with politically conservative & religiously conservative people.  In these matters, it always seems to come down to religion & politics,  Is it changing?  I think yes, but much too slowly.  The roots go much too deep & back too far.

It's curious, the timing & subject matter of your post.  I'm currently reading a fascinating book by Garry Wills called, "Head & Heart, American Christianities."  It is an historical treatise on the history of Christianity in America & it is an eye opener.

As pertains to your comment on the article, I went back & garnered a couple of quotes that I think are pertinent to the article.  The first is from one of my favorites, a homeboy, Studs Turkel.  "The Sixties would be demonized (By Christian evangelicals) later by those who think it marks the time when America lost its way.  On the other hand, the oral historian Studs Terkel calls the Sixties people "the greatest generation," playing on the title of Tom Brokaw's book about the World War II generation.  Terkels point is that never before, in this or any other country, were human rights taken so seriously or defended so energetically--the rights of women, of blacks, of GAYS, of Native Americans, of Latino Americans, of the handicaped, of different RELIGIONS."  The CAPS were mine.

In connection with these comments, Mr. Wills quotes a Christian magazine commenting on secular humanism, the arch enemy of Christian evangelicals.  "...Evangelicals see secular humanism behind everything they hate.  The Christian Harvest Times of June 1980 Proclaimed."

"To understand humanism is to understand women's liberation, the ERA, gay rights, children's rights, abortion, sex education, the "new" morality, evolution, values clarification, siruation ethics, the separation ofchurch & state, the loss of patriotism, and many of the other problems that are tearing America apart today."

I would be hard pressed to find a more damning statement of evangelical philosophy than this.

As you can see, when it comes to gays, in particular, & the other issues, in general, we are dealing with a group, a sizeable group, of people with political power who have some very narrow views of how life should be in this country.  They tend to be archaic in their thinking processes and defend their way of thinking by relying on their one & only source of thinking, their bible.  What they don't know, &/or refuse to admit, is the history of that book.  They will run circles around most people in their ability to quote scripture, chapter & verse, but won't bea able to tell you or any one else just how that book came to be.  It is a shame, really.  Because of this, & the fact that this process is repeated generation after generation, we have the situation we have now.

Not to put to fine a point on it, an excellent example can be found in the situation in Texas & the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints.  When the children were taken from the parents & the compound, & brought into the general society, they started to withdraw becuse they couldn't cope with & didn't understand anything @ modern society outside of they were told by their parents, which was genarally negative. 

In a larger view, we are pretty much the same.  We are told as youngsters to believe in & rely on the words of our parents.  We should trust them & what they say.  And why shouldn't we?  At that age, what else do have to rely on.  It's pretty much the same in all the animal kingdom.  The young learn from their parents & elders.  But sometimes it goes wrong.  What can I say?  Excerement transpires!

I've pontificated enough & I need to go & take a victory shower after the CUBBIES win over St. Louis this afternoon. Looking forward to your comments & those of others who are interested. Keep on picking more interesting topics like this.  It keeps things fresh & invigorates the mind.  That's what counts.  JATFUR.

RichK  

Solo, Finder, and Bax good topic, Population and what to do about it, hmmm! Well Finder, increasing the Gay population would sure do the trick. No my Knickers aren’t in a wad. I raised four children three boys and one girl. One of my boy’s is gay and I love him to death. I learned a long time ago that love is unconditional. I will never forget the day he told me that he was Gay. We were on the speaker phone talking to him, with my other children setting next to me. (All Adults at the time) When out of the blue he say’s dad I’m gay. Of course I was shocked actually quite stunned, and the only thing I could think to say right off was Tim I’m glad you are happy, I knew what he meant; I just didn’t know what to say.  I don’t know why I said it, it just came out. He was so afraid that I would disown him. We talked and I told him that I didn’t understand it, but I won’t condemn him for it, and that I loved him just as much as I always had. You could just here the tension in his voice leave. Today we Rag on each other and have fun with it. I still can’t get used to him and my young wife looking at boy books together. That’s just too weird for me. He asked me to go see Broke Back Mountain with him and I said Nooo Way Tim, I got to draw a line somewhere and that’s the line. Of course all my other kids knew about it before dad. No Knickers in a wad here.        

RichK.. Sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don’t. This time I agree with one of your statements. Some people think the answer to all things is in the Bible. I believe the Bible can answer a lot of questions but only if you read it as originally written. The King James Version is a translation from original language and some changes unavoidably occurred during that process. Hence, the interpretation of the script by the reader can always be different from another person’s interpretation. A case in point, one of the commandments is "Thou Shalt Not Kill". The actual Hebrew word used for kill is Ratsach. Ratsach means murder and not the word kill. Because of these different interpretations I rarely get into discussions about religion (or politics).

winn - you beat me to it.  That's one way to get to a negative population growth rate.  No thanks - I'm gonna just have to live in a more crowded world I guess.

Congrats on dealing with your family issue so openly and honestly.  Your son is a lucky man to have such a great Dad.

I saw Soylent Green when I was about 12 or so.  Talk about making an impression on a young mind.  My mother took me to see Walking Tall, but the violent bar fight scene was too much for me, so I went to the next theater over and watched Soylent Green.  It certainly wasn't much better.  Interesting concept - recycling old people into Guacamole Doritos.  Mmm Mmm.  Gives "going green" a whole new meaning.

Winn,

Sounds as if you have your head screwed on in a correct & loving manner.  Too bad more people don't have your attitude.  On the other hand, I still have not seen Broke Back Mountain & still have no interest in seeing it.  Not necessarily because of any scenes, the story line just does not hold any interest for me.

Walt,

That's one of the great things @ agreeing to disagree.  Done properly, with a generous amount of thinking, give & take & the wish to learn another side, both sides come away with understanding, not vitriol.

You bring up en excellent point @ interpreting.  It dovetails with what I said @ reading @ how the bible was produced.  Upon closer inspection, I don't recall anyone actually proving how it was originally written.  Add to the mixture the process of having to interpret meanings, not just words, the person, group or groups doing the interpretation, mistakes, honest & otherwise, plus the big one, picking & choosing what goes into the final product so as to fix &/or support orthodoxy, & you have a mountain of problems with which to deal. On the other hand, learning @ politics is pretty much the same, when you think @ it.

The one thing I would disagree with you is your last sentance.  If one limits or shies away from something, one can't learn @ it.  At least that philosophy works for me.

Bax,

Don't worry @ living in a crowded world too much.  We'll all try to be as friendly as we can, at least on the blog.  Good one on "going green."  I wonder how many more tie-ins we'll have on this one.  It seems to be getting better. Have a great day, one & all.  Enjoy the Chamber of Commerce weather.  JATFUR.

RichK

Winn, I can't tell you how much I appreciated your post. A real life account of how one family dealt with a shocking revelation. Thank you for sharing.

Now if we could just change the attitude of a few hundred thousand 'Christians' that just can't accept people for what they are unless they are just like them.

I wonder how many children would have a better life if this state would allow a gay couple to adopt children. They would rather have them raised in state sponsored foster care being bounced pillar to post than to let a gay couple raise them in a loving home.

Sorry, you can't call them a couple can you? That might imply something that remotely resembles marriage. If they have their way with the ballot amendment that will be illegal.

I hope that this state is not cruel enough to pass that. If people believe everything that those far right conservatives say and pass it, there is going to be trouble. As much as they spout that it will not affect medical and insurance coverage, it will.

Some companies will use that as a loop hole to dive through, others will be afraid to grant coverage because it might be construed as supporting something that resembles marriage. 

But all of that aside, it is just flat wrong to treat a segment of our population like that. It is no more right than the black and white drinking fountains that used to exist.

These small minded nit-wits are protecting marriage like CPVR is protecting my right to vote. Oops sorry, that just kind of slipped in there.

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice (5 or 7) in Nov.

Excellent post Winn. The trouble with a lot of so called Christians is that they think their particular brand of religion is correct, and no other is. A true Christian is to love everyone, no matter what. There are many Christians who are extremely intolerant of each other's beliefs. A true Christian is also called to call those who exhibiting improper behavior into repentance. A call to repentance is not supposed to be a parent disowning a child, or a brother disowning his brother because of a difference in belief. So many people just sound off from their high horse about hell, fire and damnation, without mentioning compassion, and love. I dare say those people are like the Pharisees. The spout the law with their lips, but the law does not live within their hearts.

I applaud the way your handled your bombshell. Not many people would have reacted as such a loving father, while being stunned at the same time. I think as a parent I would have reacted the same way. I think there are some mixed emotions, but as a loving parent that will never be an issue that could drive you and your son apart.

Judge not lest you be judged, let the one without sin cast the first stone. It don’t specify what sin you commit, the bible states “no not one is without sin” So who are we to judge our brothers for what they choose to do, or how they live their lives. Is any one sin worse than the other? Is a drunkard worse than a harlot, is a Gay, or lesbian worse than a murderer? To my knowledge only blaspheme is a sin separated from all others; I say all sin is distasteful to our creator. It is not just Christians who are intolerant of each others beliefs, in general all religions cry I’m right, and you are wrong. How many wars in this world have been fought over that very cry of right and wrong? Why does radical Islam want to see us dead? Because they are right and we are wrong.

            The emotions that I have aren’t mixed it is more like comprehending how one could enjoy sex as man on man. It just sounds too hairy for me. I saw a child grow into a compassionate and caring individual that shows respect to all. You can’t ask for any more than that. I shudder to think how some grow up, and who they become. And I think of the day they will run our great nation, as the hoodlums they are. Yet many condemn a man for being gay; while they make excuses for Johnnie’s actions. Oh no my boy couldn’t have had a gun pointed at the officer, it wasn’t jonnies fault it was the kids he hung out with. Which is worse a man kicking in your front door to rob, rape, and pillage, you and your home, or two men who love one another that do no harm to anyone by their actions.

I was born and raised in a southern baptist church and have attended the same one exept for one year for the past 14 years and being gay is not popular, rather shunned, if a member were to "come out", they would either be exiled or all focus and attention would be on getting that person to repent.  Meanwhile we have forgotten that we just told a lie and that ten of us smoke and three members are going to have a party with alchohol tonight.  See any contradiction, maybe it's just my molding of a college mind coming open to other ideas, but the church especially in the south is rather impartial to certain sins and gives sermons of how sin is all the same.  Or maybe it's just the reaction, "Be who you want to be, just don't come around me."  I have a cousin and i don't know his religous affiliation, however, he has a gay friend.  Now, my cousin happily married to a woman and my cousin is man, but he has a gay friend.  I was over at his home a while back and that subject of his firend being gay came up, and my cousin apprently does not care that his friend is gay, like that's his choice.  Not to say that christians should just lay down and ie on the subject, but some acceptance that all are sinners and have fallen short of the glory of God and that all of us live in sin of or own everyday and don't repent.  More love and compassion from men especially in a non gay way but rather a biblical way would go far in at least instilling in someone's mind that they're cared about and not rejected b/c of choices they have made that are much the same of their peers.

If I could picture my idea of a good Christian it would have to be John Walton, the father character on the T.V. show "The Walton’s".  Every other character on the show professes to be a good Christian but are quick to pull the trigger on someone that they feel is a sinner, especially Olivia and Grandma Walton. John Walton refuses to go to church because of all the falderal with religion but he is the person who takes people at face value and will lend a helping hand to any person in need. If you don’t cause harm to him or anyone in the Walton clan, you are free to practice any lifestyle you choose. He may not agree with the path you’ve taken but he certainly won’t go beating his chest and get on the phone to spread the alarm over hill and dale to beware of the heretic. He doesn’t park his butt in a pew every Sunday but he looks all around him and knows that there is a higher power worthy of worship. Wouldn’t it be great if there were more John Waltons?