Criticizm of Double Dippers: Socialism in Disguise

OldTimer;

I would guess you haven't read any of the previous blogs about DD (double dipping). Angela has a REAL hard time understanding that what they are doing is legal. She thinks that even if it is legal that it is unethical and that they shouldn't be taking that money.

You see a bunch of highly educated legislators tried to do one person a favor and let him DD. But in their highly preferential treatment of this individual they made a HUGE mistake. The language made it available to everyone else in that situation.

What a concept. What is fair for one is fair for all. If they could have just figured out how to make it be just for that one person I guess it would have been OK to her. But to pass a law that affects the entire group is just wrong.

Now the legislature has come out and said that this is not what the meant to do. They just wanted it for that one person. I have not heard one word of protest about that back door idea.

To call these people unethical for doing what the law allows, in my opinion is ridiculous. If the leaders of this state government hadn't tried to help some good old boy buddy, this whole issue would never have come up.

That is what happens when you try to make one person or group more equal than another. They try to screw the public with some pork fat for one person then cry foul when they figure out they were not as smart as they thought they were.

Now they are really crying because they can't figure out how to turn this around and still let the good old boy DD. They would rather whine and cry about these unethical people that are taking an unfair advantage of a loop hole than to actually stop the good old boy from drawing his two paychecks.

Go figure. An individual follows the law and he is unethical. Yet the idiots that passed this are being taken advantage of.

Mike Heemer

I see no problem whatsoever with double dipping.  Whats the big deal about someone who joined the S.O. or the Navy at 18 retired at 38, heck even worked for the post office, WM, WD, heck anywhere and wants to start a new career they are still young.  Its their money in their retirement plan not yours they worked hard for that money all those years.  At least they are not sitting home drawing their retirement and then trying to get welfare or counting nickels and dimes to buy their selves groceries.  They are out working and earning a decent living.  My spouse can retire at a very young age and he does not plan on sitting at home going stir crazy no he plans on going back to work possibly in another field of work or maybe starting his own business.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this.  I think that those of you who are against it are just jealous due to your lack of pre-planning........

I like the statement from the legislator who said other than the friend who was why they passed law. All the others my have killed the goose that laid the golden egg. I wonder which legislator they were talked about that laid the golden egg. 

Where I work we have plenty of people of retire and then come back as contractors.  We're happy to have them, because these are guys with years and years of experience.

I have a slight acquaintenship with one of the "double dippers" from the CCSO.  I consider him to be a respectable gentleman outside of work, and I would expect he conducts himself in the same maner at work. 

I don't understand why anyone is worried about double dippers to begin with.  Taylor has been talking about losing experience to attribtion, but at the same time he has spoken against retaining double dippers.  You don't keep experience by getting rid of your most experienced workers. 

Did Taylor retire from the FDLE? If he did and he becomes our sheriff, won't he be collecting a retirement and getting paid to be sheriff?

Proudmamma, you mentioned the members of the military who have served for 20 or more years and then they retire. In actuality, military personnel don’t really retire. It’s called retirement but they are really on retainer, that’s why their I.D. cards say "indefinite" in the expiration date. They can be called back to active duty in certain situations.

When the battleships USS Iowa and USS New Jersey were reactivated, the Navy had to recall men who were in their 60's because nobody in the active fleet knew how to fire the 16" guns. A few old salts had to suck in their guts and crawl into uniform for the purpose of training the ‘young guns’.

Mike Taylor really hasn't spent much time in law enforcement... certainly not long enough to be getting a retirement check now.  He quit to run for sheriff.  Now he is 42 years old and unemployed. 

When Mike Taylor worked in law enforcement, he didn't spend much of his time doing what most law enforcement officers do.  He spent most of his time as a body guard for governors.

I checked out his web site and he only boasts of experience which many say is significantly glorified.  What about education?  Does he have a college education?  Anybody know?

I just googled him, found he has a Bachelor's in criminology from St. Leo's college. http://myflemingislandplantation.com/print.php?sid=17 

I believe Beseler has investigated all the crimes Taylor has listed on his resume. Beseler went from Dispatcher to Patrol Sgt then on to investigator in the State Attorneys' Office where he eventually became the Chief Investigator. I know the investigators in the SAO cover a broad range of crimes that are investigated.

If I remember correctly from the bios on the supervisor of elections web site, Mike Taylor has a Bachelors Degree.  Rick Beseler has a Masters Degree and is a graduate of the FBI Academy, along with his 30 years of law enforcement experience.

While it does seem to be a plus, experience trumps education every time.just as somone said about training the "young guns" by the "old guns". But just to throw a log on thefire, does it really matter? Isn't the sheriff job just like the state attorney job? Ain't it really just an adminstrative slot? How much actual hands on policing does the sheriff really do? We know Harry won't try any case that isn't a slam dunk. And Rick, who I think has done OK, really ain't a TJ Hooker if you catch my drift. Mostly these jobs are just paper pushing and making decisions. Anyone with the competence of a file clerk could do it.

I don't think that the average file clerk can supervise hundreds of employees, handle a 40-something million dollar per year budget, and serve the needs of all of the citizens of the county without first being a good manager.  And in the case of sheriff, he or she needs to be honest too.

You'd think if Taylor has a bachelors degree he'd list it on his website for qualifications.  Maybe that is just rumor.  Have you seen it listed somewhere?  What is his bachelor's in?  I would think a candidate for sheriff should have a masters degree.  I am still more impressed with Beseler even with all else set aside.  The all else though is significant to me. 

Check his Bio on the SOE site. It lists his BA degree. 

Mike Heemer

Am I correct that GN said on his live blog tonight that he retired from a civil service position? Uh oh, that would make him a DD too! Or, maybe he will do the job of Sheriff (if elected) for free!

What to do, what to do! Options are becoming limited. Lets all write a letter.

Mr Newman retired from a Federal Job and gets a retirement. He will get a check from Federal and a check from the State if he is elected. I have no problem with that method.

Just like I have no problem with military that retire and then go on the State's payroll as a State (LEO) employee.

I have a problem with people who get 2 State Government Checks at the same time. I think that's why they call it double dipping the taxpayers.

PL;

Nope, that would make him the dreaded triple dipper.

Navy, Civil Service and then the Sheriff. A pox on him.

Though I'm pretty sure the money is not the motivating factor for him. Anyone that did 20 or more years in the Navy didn't do it for the money. I wasn't that great. 

Mike Heemer

Ok, so that will make 2 federal checks and maybe 1 state check.

Lets hang him, I think.

Please explain what you mean by Let's hang him...Before you speak maybe you should find out what he did in the military and how he risked his life for our freedom.

It was a joke, hence the smiling emoticon. Actually, I was poking fun at someone else. Sorry you didn't get it.

I don't see a problem with collecting 2 or more checks, whether or not they come from State, Federal, etc. It is what you deserve.

BTW- I am married to the military..

I am just curious if he attended  St. Leo or if he completed his education by correspondence.  I know several who never attended the college and completed their degree on-line or by correspondence.  I guess the reason for my question is that it is a Catholic college and with his religious background it does not seem a choice college for him unless he was seeking the flexibility of a correspondence college.  I am not knocking the education you would get through correspondence but it certainly is not the same as Beseler who by the way is a SEMINOLE!!!  Never realized that until now so that gives him extra points with me if he needed them, but he doesn't.  Just an observance. 

Maybe this will put an end to the double dipping argument:

They get their retirement money whether they keep working or not.

The money they get from working has nothing to do with their retiremement money.  Their retirement pay and their wages come from completely different sources, one being payroll and the other retirment fund.

There is another type of double dipping, and it may be what is leading to some of the confusion.  I don't fall under this system, but there are some federal rules about people who rate a military pension and then go on to work at a federal job.  Military time counts as federal time and under the old retirment system would count towards retirement for someone who, for instance, served 4 years, got out, and went to work at NAS.  The longer term military who rated retirment and then got federal jobs would still get some additional retirement benefits, I think, but could not fully double dip and get two seperate retirement packages. 

I think they may be an end to the Bad eggs.

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/04/State/Bills_curb_double_dip.shtml

Here's a link to the story and the series for those who would like to read it:

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2008/interactives/retirement-loophole/

I have no problem w/ dd's, some have earned the right and an elected official is a different story. The problem with it @ the SO and other LEO Agencies is that it prevents advancement through promotion. Ayoung man starts his career and sets the goal to be a supervisor. When a Captain retires and his hired back in 30 days @ the same rank and pay it eliminates the chance for 3 promotions and possibly a new hire. It's funny to see a big retirement bash and 30 days later say "good morning capt"

That was the purpose of the DROP's program and in my opinion has been abused. We even made national news with this 300 million dollar taxpayers perk to the select. We are cutting budgets now in the State and can't even afford to hire new employees. They should just forget about coming up through the ranks. But we have dippers.

This was in the USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retirement/2008-07-16-doubledippers_N.htm

There are two issues being confused into one, here.  Entering the DROP means you file your retirement and begin receiving your pension.  However, you continue to perform the same job, receive your paycheck but, for no longer than 5 years.  At that point you must leave your job.  Also, during that period your pension is deposited into an account, like a mutual fund, with strict limitations and/or penalties on removal.  Also, while in the DROP you are no longer receiving credit for an additional pension.  The other issue is for public employees who actually retire, begin receiving the retirement check, sit out for thirty days and then enter another public position.  They can collect credit toward a "new" pension as well as their paycheck.  When they retire again, they would be receiving essentially two pension checks.

 The kicker is that elected officials reach retirement levels far quicker than regular civil or career service employees.  Therefore, they can qualify for a retirement through being an elected official, then be appointed to an executive type position and earn a second retirement within 5-7 year.

The vast number of individuals in DROP don't make any where near the paycheck or retirement checks indicated by the SPT articles.