Folio

When I went to get the paper they were plenty of them there. I can understand some of the details in that story. I wouldn't want those things said about my child.

If the story as it is alleged I think it reveals the need for some serious investiations concerning our system. That should be of a major concern to the citizens.

Those are some serious allegations being made against some public officials and law enforcement in our county.

I heard of the video and it was suppose to be a Taylor supporter. Since the parents of the victims did the interview with the Folio and conducted the rally I dont think they would be the  ones that were picking them up. Nice try though.

I beleive it was one of the parents that commented in a blog. They wish the story had be written a different way. Maybe they could tell us what they meant by that statement. Do you think they would have access to a Taylor bumper sticker?

I think the victims and their parents did the interview but I doubt they knew there would be enough information to identify the girls.  If that was the case, why use the fake names and shadowed pictures?

Victim advocate...dont get me wrong, I am all about supporting victim's and their rights....and know what crime victims go through during the investigation and prosecution process.  It is sometimes much worse than the crime itself.  I just did not like that the Folio reported so much more information on the girls than necessary to get the point across.

I think you make a valid point about the process victims go through. There will be hours of depositions and many will want to talk to them. Many will want to talk to the parents as well. They will not be friendly people because they will be representing a person accused. It can be a grilling and humiliating experience for victims. I would fully agree it can be worst than the crime itself. I am also an advocate for victims rights. 

but I doubt they knew there would be enough information to identify the girls.

I just did not like that the Folio reported so much more information on the girls than necessary to get the point across.

In a case like this Susan may have given them some say over what was printed.

But either way, if you are going to hold a press conference it probably wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who the girls were.

It seems to me that the girls and the parents are walking a fine line between just outright shielding them and outright exposing their identity. This has got to be a gut wrenching time for all of them.

For those that say they are victim advocates, this would be a good time to write to the Governor and ask him to get this investigated. It would also be a good time to express some sympathy for the people involved and let them know that you support them in their quest for a full and open investigation regardless of the outcome.

Mike Heemer

I have blogged on this subject in several places. I have never disputed the girls version or the boy's version of the story. I don't know because I wasn't there. I would say that's why they have investigations to determine evidence. I agee we need to all contact the Governor and let him have this entire situation investigated. Some serious allegation have been leveled against people and public officials.

Going to lunch you guys have a good day. Stay inside it is hot.

Here we go again,  Mike Taylor and his supporters think we the people are stupid again.  I feel sure that the Mike Taylor supporters snatched up them papers and then put this blog in here.  The artical was not only about the girls but it was about a kid getting his teeth knocked out by Mike Talors son and dont forget about the hazing deal at the high school.  If any I wonder what kind or values, morals, and principles have been tought in Mike Taylors home.  Then I think he wants to be the sheriff of Clay County.  Thats a dangerious thought.  I agree with the reply up there , nice try but like I say we are not stupid.  I sure hope the govenor will give the o k to reopen this case and it will not be one of Mike Taylors friends to investigate the case.  all in all,  do we the voters in Clay County even want to take a chance with Mike Taylor being our sheriff.  Just think about it ..

I have no affiliation with the Taylor campaign and unfortunately..do not care for any of our choices.  Like I said in the original post, if my daughter was one of the girls involved, I would have wanted to take the copies off the stands too. 

The hazing incident was not hazing...that was a felony...sexual assault..no ifs, ands or butts about it.  Taylor's son was not the only offspring of law enforcement involved...that is why nothing was done.

I dont think I am on the wrong track,, like I said we the people of Clay County are not stupid. Now I beleive even more that this was put in here by Mike Taylor supporters. One of the most important part of my reply was what kind of morals, values and principles are being taught in the Taylor's home.  also if you cant police your own home how are you going to control over 600 employes at the sheriffs office.

I believe it was catagorized as hazing to minimize its significance as if everyone does it as a right of passage.  Sorry, but no it was sexual assault.  If I were the parents I would have pressed charges!  Maybe this could have stopped this kid from continuing to assault.  He feels he can do anything, so he does. 

I agree that the parents would have been upset over identification of their children and too much information was given.  I think the parents should have been able to review the article before it came out.  I am sure things would have been different.  But then we would not know the violence without details and that is probably why the writer put that in there.  Did she identify Taylor in the hazing article months ago?  I remember reading it, but don't recall names.  Would they have contended that was slander politically motivated too?  Sounds like they cause their own problems all by themselves and don't need anybody making anything up there.  The truth is bad enough.

I'm not a Taylor supporter either. I could understand your concerns if Adam Taylor was running for Sheriff. He's not.

As far as Mr. Taylor if he had problems with all his children then I would think about your statement. However, he does seem to have had some issues with his one son. Now maybe if they elect Mr. Taylor he can lead the agency with the part that has raised his other children without the problems.

I think it would safe to say his son has had some issues. Which should not be a reflection on Mr. Taylor unless he was having the same issues with all his children. You know they say if happens with one child then it might be you. If it happens with several children then it must be you.

As far as other leo families being involved in the hazing and no actions taken. Then that is why we need an investigation in to all of these matters. We have serious problems in the county if that is true.

Maybe he could say that he has raised two without legal  issues because if appears he has four children.  I believe the two oldest were part of the hazing if I recall it correctly from my neighbors.  I thought one held the camera, but I may be wrong on that.  If you know Angela, please correct me. 

I have heard that Taylor's two oldest sons participated in the sexual assault that occurred in the wrestling room at FIHS.  But there was ANOTHER offspring of a LEO involved too.

I was told by students from FIHS that four wrestlers held the child down while Adam assaulted the child and his brother video taped it. The video ended up on You Tube. After the incident and after no charges were filed, Adam walked around FIHS telling students that he couldn't be touched, that his dad was the next sheriff.

This is why we need an investigation in our county. The Sheriff was involved in this matter as with the other incident. If people are securing a benefit for themself or others by using their position it is a crime. I think it has many legs and one big ugly head in our county. We need an investigation!!!!

I don't remember reading where it had been reported. I remember something about the principal and the school board being involved. Don't remember the Sheriff's Office. Does anyone know?

Yes, the CCSO was involved and the matter was "investigated."  Again, you have two of Taylor's kids involved as was the son of another senior law enforcement officer. 

Reports were the victim did not wish to press charges.  You see the backlash the girls are now facing after making allegations...can you imagine a boy making sexual allegations and the backlash he would face? 

FlemIslresident, I had heard that too (about not wanting to press charges). No, I cannot imagine what all of the child victims of this young man have gone through. Seems the victims keep piling up.

It seems the only thing that has gone wrong here is no one in a position to act has acted. If all of these are true and being covered up then we need to have someone come in an investigate all of these agencies. In Clay County we have problems and it is much bigger than one person.

The hazing incident was not hazing...that was a felony...sexual assault..no ifs, ands or butts about it.   

You can find lots of info on this incident right here on MCS and I mean LOTS. Back then there was a lot of 'it's just boys being boys'. Sheriff Beseler was ripped for trying to investigate it. He was 'politically motivated' because it was MT's son. If I remember correctly Adam was the only one over 18 but hey. 

'Master' Adam was 18 at the time and being 'supervised' at school by a bunch of idiot coaches that didn't see any harm in this. His younger brother was the one that filmed it and posted it on the web.

Our incompetent SOS (who thank goodness isn't running this year) and fair haired wonder boy Principal Ward (who I understand just got a better job at higher wages because he was a great coach) blew this off as not meeting the criteria of a crime.

The team was disbanded for a short time and then re-instated just in time to go to state competitions. How convenient. I don't believe it was the CCSO that didn't do its job. It was the leaders (and I use that term very loosely) of the school system that failed.

Do some searching here and you will see the entire sordid story unfold like a bad novel. Sit back with a large supply of your favorite beverage because it will take you a while to read.

I didn't realize it then but you can probably find some quotes from some of your favorite Taylor supporters in there. They may have changed names but you can see the style and ideals (or lack thereof). 

Mike Heemer

Since when did the school get to decide what's a crime. I thought is was investigated and when no charges were filed. It was then turned over to the school to deal with on that level.

If Adam was 18 when this happened then he was a adult.  When a adult commets a crime it is public imformation after you commet the crime.  If the victim was a minor who got hazed and if at that time Mike Taylor was a law enforcement officer I wonder if he may have had something to do with a cover-up.  Also,  on Taylors imformation card it states he is a child sex crimes detective,,,,that should make him a expert in child sex crimes.  Think about that.

As far as I know MT was not an LOE at the time but I can't say that for sure.

Angela, go back and read the blogs and the article in MCS. I think they will answer most of your questions and bring up a lot more. 

Mike Heemer

Mr. Heemer- I cant help but think they used you as the model for Farley in Mr. Woodcock as you seem to have issues with "idiot coaches" and old coaches(Mr. Ward). Normally I just read and chuckle at some of the inane discussions that seem to offer only a passionate opinion on a particular subject with little detail or actual knowledge of the real facts because we all have opinions and this is still a free country and I respect one's right to express that opinion, but when you make reference to people that I am a part of in a way that truly misrepresents the truth, I feel obligated to present another side of the story, one much closer to the truth then your dependency on the "blogs". Referring Angela to previous blogs for information about this story is like telling someone to read the National Enquirer for the real stories.

I am a coach at FIHS(not wrestling). I know most all of the coaches as I have worked and volunteered a lot of my time with the athletic department when my sport is not in season and up until recently, I was a substitute teacher on a regular basis. That means I have gotten to know a lot of teachers, administrators, coaches and students in the 5 years that school has been in existence. I am pretty damn proud of what everyone in that school has accomplished in 5 years. Academically, they are the best HS in Clay County. I have defended them before on previous blogs and will continue to do so because I worked with a lot of them and I still know a lot of them.

 Every time something happens that draws attention to the school in a negative light, someone blows the "piling on" whistle and everyone blasts the principal on down. When the dust finally settles and the system works, there is always someone who will still think there has to be a sinister plot to cover up everything that happened. Mr Ward has never backed down from doing what he felt was in the best interest of the students and the school and he has never attempted to cover anything up. Dont you think he knows that there are a bunch of conspiracy theorists out there just looking for a story. He didnt hide when the young lady that wanted her picture taken in a tuxedo came up. He just didnt take the politically correct solution. He didnt hide from the initiation ritual in wrestling( I wont call it hazing because that is not what it was- I know what hazing is and trust me, that was not hazing). You can make it sound like the punishment to the wrestling team was like a slap on the wrist, but you are dead wrong. The entire team lost a lot of their wrestling season because of that incident and in case you never took wrestling in school, it is one of the most pyhsically demanding sports on this planet and if you do not practice and compete you lose the ability to compete for recognition and potential scholarships. Dont try to tell me and everyone else on this blog that their punishment was minor, I know a bunch of those kids and they were devastated by the punishment. No coach in that school would condone what happened and, no, we cant be everywhere the athletes are all the time and some of them pull some pretty immature stunts. This particular stunt was reprehensible even though a lot of former wrestlers will tell you it is not uncommon in their sport. If anything, this incident has raised the awareness of those who may still harbor notions that these kinds of rituals are still OK and will stop.

Kurt Musser

I'm not familiar with that character but I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant as a compliment. That's OK.

( I wont call it hazing because that is not what it was- I know what hazing is and trust me, that was not hazing).

Coach, I suggest you read the rules and the laws. Initiation and hazing are nearly synonymous. If it entails a bare ass it is NOT an initiation. And therein lays the problem.

It was hazing and calling it anything else is a rationalization to make everyone in charge feel better about what a great job they are doing. We don't have hazing in FIHS that kind of stuff goes on in Duval. We just have initiation rituals here in Clay. 

Yes I was a wrestler in both Elementary and HS. I guess we just must not have been that good because we never had to exercise like that. We were fully dressed out for ours.

I didn't say anyone covered it up. They were up front about it. They just blew it off as an initiation ritual that all the boys had been subjected to at some time.

It is quite obvious to the most casual of observers that this was not an isolated incident. If the leaders didn't turn a blind eye to this type of behavior it wouldn't happen.

Is it happening in your sport? I couldn't say. But I will say this, if you can't figure out that a bare ass in someone's face is hazing you may have a problem that you have yet to figure out exists.

You might want to go look up some of the court cases around the country to get a good idea of what has been ruled as hazing and what it has cost individuals, schools and officials in positions of authority.

It just simply amazes me that a place that is so proud of its 'true conservative' roots and ideals can be so accepting of this kind of behavior. Somehow I just don't think that this personifies the 'family values' that so many preach so much about. I must have missed this lesson in Sunday School.

As you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is mine.  

Mike Heemer

I appreciate that someone has stood up for FIHS, and not turned this blog into yet another Ward/FIHS/Owens bashing session.  With over 2400 students, let's begin focusing on the outstanding achievements and accomplishments of the individuals at FIHS.  Every school throughout this nation has their fair share of scandals; however, they don't have opportunists ready to pounce on them at any given moment.  It would be a beautiful day when all the bitterness towards this school vanishes, and they are welcomed throughout all of the Clay County Communtiy.  

Heemer: I just did not like that the Folio reported so much more information on the girls than necessary to get the point across.

Me too. Ditto.

Somebody didnt do a good job of picking up Folio if that story is true.  They were plenty available anywhere I went.

Hazing or whatever these boys did by definition is stupid and usually dangerous.  I find it somewhat strange that in all of the blogs about Adam Taylor which included a story about his fighting with a friend to the point of dental damage that no one has considered that the boy is on a wrestling team?  Maybe the powers that be should reconsider offering a high school sport that is violent and take their due portion of responsibility for his actions since they helped teach him how to do it.  

Coach Kurt,

Although Clay County School System touts themselves as being among the best and far superior to Duval County Schools, here is how the situation would have been handled in Duval County, according to an administrator from Duval County:

1. Expulsion from school, or attendance at an alternative school for the remainder of the year.

2. The perps would not have been allowed back on the wrestling team at all.

So, yes, many people think that those responsible for this violent hazing of a sexual nature received "a slap".

Ever heard the saying about one bad apple ruining the barrel? This happens to be more than one. I did not bash the school. I did however bash Owen/Ward.

He didnt hide when the young lady that wanted her picture taken in a tuxedo came up. He just didnt take the politically correct solution.

I wouldn't call that statement a rousing endorsement of his fair and unbiased treatment of students.

She couldn't wear a Tux why? I hardly call a narrow minded twit a good leader. Letting her do so was not only the politically correct thing to do. It would have been the right thing to do.

He didnt hide from the initiation ritual in wrestling

He may not have 'hidden' but he sure was standing deep in the shadows. If he had stuck to his original plan and suspended wrestling for the entire school year then I would not be so critical of his leadership. He caved to the pressure to let them compete.

You don't see any problems with disparity in the treatment of these two situations? She was unpopular because she was different and wanted to wear a Tux. They were popular because they wrestled and might bring some accolades to the school to boost someone's ego and pad their resume.

Strange how that moral high ground shifts elevation at the convenience of the group involved. 

Mike Heemer

I'm not certain I would call this incident violent. I have heard some hazing stories that were violent.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102397,00.html 

To know how common this is I've placed a link for a national survey that was done concerning hazing at Alfred University.

I believe they would suggest getting it out in the open for discussion and teaching the kids about hazing. Its an interesting study for those interested.

http://www.alfred.edu/hs_hazing/

Mr Musser I think your statement about awareness and zero tolerance is right in line with the study.

I do not know for sure but heard that MT takes his boys to fight clubs and they take lessons.  Is this to teach them to protect themselves, intimidate others, or just to learn to feel physically superior.  I don't think the coaches or school should be blamed for that fight.  There are many wrestlers that love it for what it is, a sport

I do not feel the entire team should have been punished if only a few boys participated in this event.  The ones who participated, not the victim should have been punished, banned from school and school events, sent to Banderman and have charges pressed on them.  Then and only then would these events stop.  We as adults have to stand up against these unruly children and show them that life is about following the rules, or there are consequences.  I agree with Mr. Musser that the majority of the school administration has the best interest here but somebody missed the boat and I am unsure if it was the school principal, superintendent, or once again the State Attorney's office.  Maybe the school was not able to do anything if no charges were filed.  I am not involved in the high school environment so maybe someone could tell me what is specifically in the school handbook. 

FYI check out the date

Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle

I kind of see both sides. If you don't have zero tolerance then sorting out  who did what to who becomes nightmare. On the other hand, the message is definitly received. This was all too Lord of the Flies.  Children, especially teens can be animalistic. This case proves it. Ward, natuirally, the most incompetant, get sthe big rewrd. Typical in American culture today. Ward should have been fired with not job recommendation. He is a disgrace.

OGV,

Principal (Coach)Ward serves at the pleasure of  Superintendent (Coach) Owens.

Hope that helped you connect some dots, OGV.

Thanks for the link!  Amazing.  I was unaware of the exact details.  Now I am seriously convinced there is persuasion going on here.  No crime committed? They've gotta be kiddin'.  I think everyone needs to reread all that to reaquaint themselves with the details.  And people are surprised by this new dimension! I am glad I've started reading these blogs.  I've learned so much about Clay County.  Maybe I'll run for office.  Oh but wait I need to do something seriously illegal first to get attention. Negative or not its attention.  Then everybody will know who I am at least!

The State Attorney got its information from the Clay County Sheriff's Office investigation report. I don't think Mr. Skinner investigated the matter.

Thanks Maxie for the link. I knew I read that somewhere but didn't see it when I looked earlier today.

I like all your photos. I check over there all the time. I am a fan of your work.

The school shouldn't be deciding what is a crime, but their handbook should spell out expellable offenses and I'm sure this fits in a catagory somewhere.  In the article that one blogger referenced it stated that the State Attorney's office declined to prosecute.  So maybe that is the problem.  You're right the school shouldn't be deciding and it sounds to me like the sheriff's office can't either if they are controlled by the State Attorney's office.  Even if the sheriff's office thinks its a crime it isn't if Shorstein says it isn't.  Maybe that is what these girls had problems with.  Sounds like with reason for arrest they were in the same boat but nothing could be done if the State Attorney's office declines to prosecute.  You are right also that something needs to be done if the SA office is undermining the detective's jobs. 

Part of the problem with this case is that the Sheriffs legal advisor got involved,to the point that they had to limit the advise he gave to Deputies because of the mess he made.

Yes I think I've seen some other messes coming from over there too. Didn't he come from the SAO too? I like your UCR translation in the other blogs. 

Yes he is considered one of the magnificent 7.He is also part of the problem in the relationship between the SAO & SO

Mr Heemer- once again, I respect one's opinion when it is represented as one. Making that statement at the end of your blog does not automatically make everything you say an opinion when you imply that what you say is the truth and supported by "most" people. There is no rationalization to try to make everyone in charge feel better about the job they are doing and they didnt just blow it off as an initiation ritual that all boys had been subjected to to at some time and the leaders didnt turn a blind eye to this type of behavior and there was no accepting of this kind of behavior because, unlike you, I have spoken to the people at the school face to face, but apparently you get your facts from the blogs. Unless the punishment meets your criteria, there must be a cover up. Unless you are qualified to conduct the proper investigation and had done so and had determined that the incident was not properly resolved, keep your personal vendettas as a representation of exactly that.

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that bashing Ward, the idiot coaches and the leadership covers a lot of people at the school, so forgive me if I mistakenly took your rant as a refelection of your love for FIHS.

Lets see, 2400 students taking their senior picture, boys in tuxedos and girls in gowns and one girl decides she wants to be different. Lets change the rules for her and let everyone wear whatever they want, heck, let them wear nothing at all if they so desire, after all this is about not being narrow minded and a good leader always lets people do what they want. I cant believe you honestly believe that his decision to disallow the one person to be different than the other 2400 is unfair and biased. That kind of leadership leads to chaos.

Once again, unless you were there to witness everything that took place regarding the initiation and the consequences and the options before Mr Ward, I would be careful to imply that he caved to pressure to let them compete. If you have factual information to that affect, please present it, otherwise, admit you dont know all the details and you are only expressing an opinion based on what you think you know or what you heard from people not involved in the decisionmaking process.

I strongly take exception to your moral high ground statement. Mine does not shift and I have witnessed first hand the standards that are enforced at FIHS and although they are not always successful and stuff happens away from supervision, everyone there has earned my respect for the job they do or try to do.

To Pioneer- it is easy for an administrator from Duval schools to give such a harsh judgement and punishment after the fact and obviously without all of the facts. I dont know all of the facts, but I certainly know more than most of the bloggers who are quick to condemn even the slightest sense of wrongdoing because I took the time to talk to the people who work at the school. Of course I had to break up one of their secret feel good meetings to get the information and I now know their secret handshake and I get their monthly cover up newsletter, so, i guess i will be branded as one of those idiot coaches who care more about winning than doing what is right based on what actually happens.

Kurt Musser

I'm not certain magnificent is the right word but I know they are 7 of them.

I played alot of sports and I wish you could have been my coach. thanks for stepping up.

If the link doesn't come up correctly, it is an episode of The Closer called Cherry Bomb.  Look for a rerun or TIVO it.

http://www.tnt.tv/dramavision/?cid=40946

I believe that Lily mentioned this episode in a blog entry but she said policeman's son.  The story is actually about the son of a man in high rank with the Sheriff's Department.  I just saw it this week.

Lets see, 2400 students taking their senior picture, boys in tuxedos and girls in gowns and one girl decides she wants to be different. Lets change the rules for her and let everyone wear whatever they want, heck, let them wear nothing at all if they so desire, after all this is about not being narrow minded and a good leader always lets people do what they want. I cant believe you honestly believe that his decision to disallow the one person to be different than the other 2400 is unfair and biased. That kind of leadership leads to chaos.

after all this is about not being narrow minded

Coasch, it isn't like she wanted to wear a thong and pasties.

one girl decides she wants to be different.

That is the problem. She did not fit someone's preconceived idea of what girls/women should be. The problem was that she was different and the morally correct true conservatives didn't like it.

I cant believe you honestly believe that his decision to disallow the one person to be different than the other 2400 is unfair and biased.

Believe it Coach. Here's my issue with where you want this to go. You can't have it both ways Coach. Do you have uniforms at the school? If not then why the problem with someone being different?

There are 2400 students at FIHS. One can't be different by wearing a Tux that only males should wear, yet one can be different by sticking his bare butt and testicles in someone else's face. Did I miss anything there? 

You don't see a shift in elevation of the moral high ground there?

Coach, I'm thinking the USMA72 stands for United States Military Academy class of 72. If so, even the Military has changed their mind on hazing and did away with a lot of 'traditional Initiations'.

Mike Heemer

 ...the initiation ritual in wrestling (I wont call it hazing because that is not what it was- I know what hazing is and trust me, that was not hazing).  

Coach Musser, I agree that Fleming Island High School is a fine institution with superior academics and an excellent athletic department.

However, your statement that you do not consider the incident in question to be hazing has me absolutely flabbergasted.

As a parent and a resident of the Fleming Island, I am appalled that, in this day and age, a coach in our local high school considers the actions of those boys to be “an initiation ritual.” I understand that you may be aware of more serious incidents of hazing, but make no mistake, this was hazing.

As a coach and substitute teacher, you are a role model to our youngsters. I hope you revisit your ideas about assault and battery being an acceptable form of initiation in sports.  Do other coaches share your outlook at FIHS? If my son were old enough to attend high school, I would certainly not want him to play baseball under your leadership with your current attitude, however a fine coach you may be. If your way of thinking is shared by the other FIHS coaches, I would think twice about allowing him to play sports there at all.

What happened to the days when young athletes were role models for our community -- when young men did not expect special treatment because they were gifted with physical prowess, but rather sought to make their community proud?By sheltering talented athletes who behave as bullies and criminals in favor of winning championships, we are creating a cadre of men who believe that they can do no wrong (think of the examples in collegiate and professional sports). Such coddling does not serve them or their future (and current) victims well.