Dirty Politics

Ladyjustice,

I don't recall seeing your name before so I am assuming that you're new to the blogohood.  Please allow me welcome you.

I can't offer to you any kind of definitive answer on why there has been so much interest on these topics,  but I can offer speculative ideas.

Since I don't know know either Mr. Taylor  or Mr. Beseler personally, I have contributed nothing of personal knowlege.  But some people do know them personally & have contributed on that level.

These people are public figures.  Yes, they are public on a very local level, but public, nonetheless. When people hold discussions about public figures it is not only their right, it is their responsibility to know as much about them as they legally can.  It's called full disclosure in a public forum.  Now please don't construue my statement as an endoresement of what you call, "mud slinging."  Personally, I prefer to keep things on subject with heavy doses of the facts.  Sadly, some don't care for that process, which is why I have stated that when I see a blog for the race for sheriff or anything to do with Clay County Animal Control these days, I don't even bother to read it.

As I said, these are just my personal views.  You may or may not find them useful.  I'm sure that you will get more points of view from the other blogeratti.  Before I sign off, I do have one question.  If Clay County is the, "heart of Christian conservatism," as you maintain, does that mean that people of other political views, other religious views, as an independent moderate, agnostic like me, are not welcome, or are we merely tolerated?  Just curious.  JATFUR.

Rich K

Ladyjustice

I, as Solo have stayed out of the mud slinging competition going on with Clay County politics. I voiced my opinion early on about the folio article. Also, as Solo I do NOT know either candidate on a personal level, or have even met them. I could give a rat’s posterior about the political aspects of the situation. What I care about, if any, and I mean ANY of these accusations are true it needs to be investigated by an independent authority put in place by the governor. ALL parties need to be investigated for any type of wrong doing. We as the citizens of this County can NOT, and Must NOT, accept corruption by the highest held offices in this County. If we have a corrupt law enforcement system, there can be no Justice for anyone.      

Winn,

Nothing to do with the subject or your reply.  It's good hearing from you & I was wondering how you are feeling.  Hope all is well & that you're having a good day today & a better one tomorrow.  JATFUR.

Rich K

It is not whether Bill Clinton and John Edwards had affairs that is the issue, it is who they were in the face of the allegations.  They looked us in the eyes and lied, and only after they were caught with irrefutable evidence did they admit those lies.  Likewise, it is not whether the Mike Taylor clan has done everything exactly as alleged, but how they have conducted themselves in the process.  Half-truths and behind-the-scenes manipulation of the legal system are not the qualities that decent folks expect from their sheriff, his family, and his supporters.

LadyJustice,

         When Rick Beseler ran against Scott Lancaster in 2004 there was another 12th hour surprise, but it was Lancaster who was caught with his hand in the cookie jar.  Going after Taylor’s family for political gain is incorrigible.

Truth Hurts! Republican Truth is Hard but it’s True!

Republicantruth1:  You are partially correct.  Going after a politician's family, in and of itself, isn't so good.  For example, Mike Taylor criticized those who were responsible for bringing up his family problems.  Even though the parents of the alleged victims have already taken credit for it, and the theme of the news article was how Mr. Taylor handled it, Mr. Taylor blamed his opponent for bringing it up. (Who knows, maybe Sheriff Beseler did help to bring it up.)  Then, in the same paragraph, Mr. Taylor mentioned Sheriff Beseler arresting his (Sheriff Beseler's) own step-son.  Mr. Taylor didn't imply that Sheriff Beseler handled it improperly, he just mentioned it.  Now, which one is an attack on the family, and which one is an attack on how the candidate handled the situation?  Is there really anyone out there who doesn't understand this?

Again, it's not about what the family member did or didn't do, it about how the candidates handled it.  The issue is about the personal judgement of the candidates.

For those who question whether Mr. Taylor really criticized allegations against family, and then mentioned it himself, see his live blog record in My Clay Sun.

I agree, people tend to use poor judgment when they are being attacked. 

 The way I interpreted what he was saying is that he could have said something about Beseler’s step son earlier but did not want to make that issue a campaign issue.  I did not take it as a “tit for tat” but obviously a lot of others did.

 Truth Hurts! Republican Truth is Hard but it’s True!

Okay, Republicantruth1, I like this calm discussion.  Let's say that Mr. Taylor was just saying that he could have made Sheriff Beseler arresting his own step-son an issue earlier, but didn't.  Do you suppose the reason Mr. Taylor didn't mention it earlier is because there would have been no political gain for him?  Do you suppose Mr. Taylor figured that because Sheriff Beseler turned his own family member over to the criminal justice system, but he (Mr. Taylor) did not, it may not be such a good thing to bring up?  Of course that's why Mr. Taylor didn't bring it up earlier, which brings us full circle back to the question of the personal judgement of the candidates.  I know that you are a Taylor person, and I am not.  The reason I am not is because when a person wants to be the chief law enforcement officer of the county, they owe it to the citizens to allow the criminal justice system to work, even if it involves their own family member.  I know, I know, the Taylor boy supposedly passed a polygraph.  Maybe he did, but that's why polygraph results are not admissable in court... because they are not reliable.  The bottom line is that when a sheriff, or sheriff's candidate goes out of his way to keep a family member out of the criminal justice system, there are always going to be those who ask why.  That is evidenced by the very fact that we are having this blog.  Isn't it better for a sheriff's candidate to put the decision in the hands of the criminal justice system?  It spares us all from going through what we are going through now.  Is there a flaw in that thinking?

With the high level of noise coming from Beseler supporters and Taylor supporters, I finally made up my mind. I have to go with Mr. Newmwn.

The other two camps have made themsleves unlikable. I still don't really care who wins but those two don't bring any honor to the job. And the people slingin mud here are no better. I do know whoever RT1 is supporting is reason enuff to vote for anybody else. She's nutz to the nth degree.

You are entitled to your opinion, just as much as anyone else. I think if Gary Newman is elected, he would make a great Sheriff.

But it is a shame that you feel that the current Sheriff doesn't bring any honor to the job. Sheriff Beseler has never engaged in any kind of smear tactic against Taylor. He is probably too busy ducking.

I do not know the Sheriff personally. As a matter of fact, I don't have any business with the SO at all. I just became interested in this in the last 2 months or so. But once I started listening and watching what was going on, I felt compelled to do my own research. IMO, Taylor is dishonest. Too many situations where he seems to feel the rules are not made for him.

I think that the article in Folio would not have hurt him if he had run his campaign differently. But he didn't, and I think it will hurt him.

I am of the belief that, if it isn't broken, don't fix it. There are people in the SO that are very concerned about the possibility of Beseler being re-elected, and with good reason. They have advertised their position against the Sheriff. If you are in the military and speak out against your commander in chief, you can be court martialed. 

I am certainly not trying to change your mind, as if I could. Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents here.

I agree Mr. Newman would make a great Sheriff. If Sheriff Beseler was not running then my vote would definitely be for him.The negative campaign started months ago from the Taylor camp. I have had the opportunity to meet all the candidates and personally believe that if it is not broke then dont fix it and it isnt broke. Sheriff Beseler has avoided the negativity from the start and I think that will help him win the election. Of course when the Folio article came out the blame was put on Sheriff Beseler but he is not the arthur and is not quoted in the aritcle.

Sheriff Beseler is an honorable Sheriff and deserves another term.

Watching this election only confirms my decision never to become a candidate for any office.  No matter who wins, everyone loses, after the mud stops flying.

Leia, I have to clarify mystatement. I wasn't saying Sheriff Beseler doesn'thave any honor. I'm sure he does. I have heard him speak. My problem is with the supporters of both the sheriff and Mr. Taylor. If I were either of these guys i would ask them all to sit down and shut up. I don't state we should shoot the messenger but sure can understand why some would. I have not witnessed any type behavior like this from Mr. Newmans camp. I won't have any complaints if any of th ethree men running win, but I have to make astatement as to the antics of these supporters. And that statement i with myvote. Who knws, if in the next week Mr. Newmans people start up with bad behavior, I may sit the whiole thing out.

By the way Leia don't you think RT1 is a woman? Maybe not a successful one but given what she has to work with?

I absolutely think she is a woman. I don't know why she won't admit it. Men don't normally get into the name calling thing.

Taylor has put himself in the situation he is in.  He started the mud slinging,  I received another one of them cards from the F O P  from Jacksonville this week in the mail with mud all over it.  I wonder if Ladyjustice last nane might be Taylor.  I have to agree with Oneguysview that there has been no mud from the Newman camp and that is one reason I am going to vote for Newman.  There are only 16 more days and this election will be over and I bet there will be some happy people when that day comes.

everyone goes round and round the mulberry bush, but no one wants to talk about the real issuses..

doesn't anyone!!!!

Old timer you posted in the blog above.

But what would have been the issue about Beseler's step-son?

Did the step-son admit he committed the crime? Well that will usually get you arrested.

Mr. Taylor's son was reported to have committed a crime 5 months earlier. Then after 2 investigation and a passed polygraph. Do you suppose it would have been wise for his father to make him confess to a crime? Just wondering.

Let me asked you if you had a son and he was accused of a crime and the same senario happened as has happened in this situation. Would you make your son confess? What if he told you he didn't do it and after 2 investigation and a polygraph test which has not produced enough evidence to prosecute. Would say let the girl have her day in court? Just wondering

These blogs should be pretty boring after the election. I wonder what some of you folks will have to blog about then. I hear the red fish are biting around the Buckman and there is a nice quite place on the water you can drink cheep cold beer south of Palatka at a fish camp called Hermits. I hear on the weekends there are a couple of college girls that stop by that will show you their tattoos while sitting on the dock drinking your cold beer. God bless them girls. See yah at Hermits.

Finally, someone with a really good idea! (Well, maybe with the exception of the tattoo inspection)

I have grown weary of all the back and forth, especially about the Sheriff's race. It is the same stuff over and over, each side trying to make their "case".  I should take Solo's idea and just pass the sheriff and CCAC blogs by.....

The next thing that will make me crazy is the avalanche of political mail that should ramp up today with early voting starting. It is not even safe to go to you mailbox!

Here's to a REALLY, REALLY cold beer on the 27th!

Finally, an idea I endorse. Cold beer and a tattoo inspection. Wonder if the wife will volunteer me for a judgeship on that contest.

Probably not. Pass the churchkey somebody,. 

Points to Ponder:

I love the idea of a cold beer.  I only wish I could get an Old Style, but that's only sold in the Midwest.

I can go either way on the tattoo contest.

RE, clayvoter,  I'm glad someone is listening to my idea.  It all boils down to abstinence only.  JUST SAY NO!

I'm still waiting for an answer from ladyjustice in regards to her comment about Clay County being "the heart of Christian conservatism."  I wonder what other counties in the South would say about that?   Maybe she's fact checking into some kind of sectarian rules on repetative rhetoric.  Whatever. 

Other than that, I still don't get into the comments on CCAC or the race for sheriff.  I like things simple, peaceful & quiet.  JATFUR.

Rich K

RK thanks for asking, I am doing much better. My good days are starting to out weigh my bad days, today is good. Nothing to do with your question, but have you noticed the way this site has changed in the past couple of months? I went back through the archives, and read some of them.

It is truly amazing how much contempt and discord the blogers have for one another today. The archives show many topics where there have been very strong differences of opinion. The debates on these matters were most always based on the other persons, belief, fact, or opinion. Not today, if someone is in disagreement the usual response is to resort to name calling, or to attack the persons credibility.

I prefer the old days, and ways in the blogsphere, a good honest debate on an issue, and then when the parties reach a stalemate, they can respectfully agree, to disagree, with out being mortal enemy from that point foword.     

Winn,

Glad to hear you're doing OK.  Keep on keepin' on.

Yea verily, I say unto the, thou speaketh with a righteous tongue.  There has been a marked deterioration in the demeanor on the bogs.  I don't know when it started.  but I have a hunch it started with the proliferation of postings about CCAC & picked up speed with the sheriff's race.  I could be wrong, though.  Kind of makes you miss the good old days when religion & politics were the hot buttons du jour.

But look at the bright side.  The subjects will change sooner or later & in January, the 20th, specifically, we get to celebrate a brand new national holiday.  It will be, by my designation, "National Kick Out The Trash Day!"  CAN I GET AN AMEN?  JATFUR.

Rich K

Remember to vote, and regardless of who wins, let's then work with our elected officials to make Clay County a better place to live.

...but not often.

I have been a faithful reader of the blogs for a long time but never posted, recently signed up and made it official so I thought I would add my 2 cents. I have a 16 year old daughter and yes, sadly,  I do personally know girls who were affected by the young man in question. It is common knowledge at Fleming Island High School that this kid is a predator in every sense of the word. Add in the fact that this young man knows he was untouchable by both the school system and now the legal system and it makes for a very dangerous person to be out on the streets. I know what the polygraph supposedly says but what about for the drug test?   I wish it were just a mudslinging tactic or heresay, rumor and innuendo.. I wish I could be in the dark and not know anyone this affected. I am not that lucky. The fact is that Taylor created a monster, Bessler enabled him. I hate that politics as of late comes down to choosing the lesser of the evils...

I will read on faithfully, but now I am thinking I will take my 2 cents and put it towards that beer.

 JUSTAMOM---

  I am your third choice.  Please go to Supervisor of Elections web-site to learn a little more about me.  I have NO baggage.

                                                            Gary Newman

                                                        Candidate for Sheriff
 

I don't think so Gary. I think there are a lot of people looking at you as their first choice. If not, they might want to do some real research and thinking before they connect some other arrow.

I wish you well.

Mike Heemer

As the mother of a young daughter, I cannot imagine how I would feel if I knew these girls personally, if my daughter were that age, knowing that it could have been her. I really feel for you. I am not posting to try to get you to change your mind about anything, I just wanted to point out something to you. Harry Shorstein made the decision to not prosecute Adam Taylor. I would venture to guess that when the first victim came forward (before Mike Taylor announced his candidacy), Sheriff Beseler had never heard of Adam Taylor.

In my opinion, Sheriff Beseler has done a good job and deserves to be re-elected. I also think that Gary Newman would be outstanding. He comes across as being a very noble, capable, and honest man. The very thought of Taylor being Sheriff makes my blood run cold. Not because of what his son is accused of, but the way he has handled that situation, and his campaign in general.

I do feel that these girls will get justice. There is too much noise for it to continue to be ignored. I also would love to see Shorstein investigated for this, as well as other allegations from neighboring counties. We do have a voice.

Leia

I am with you.  I would like to see Shorstein investigated, however the State Attorney has complete immunity from any wrongdoing on his part.  I believe this is a fault in the system. What does he have to lose by not prosecuting someone? Nothing.  What does he have to gain if a friend or candidate he supports wins? Loyalty.

How can we change the system?  Do not vote for his protoge.

Care to elaborate, ProLeo?

If the candidates were to be held responsible for what their supporters allegedly do, Mike Taylor would have been run out of town long ago.

Braveheart has always stated that he would not get involved w/ mud slinging. Now he is a fan of the folio and is handing them out. Maybe now we know who took them.

Could someone show me in the Fl Laws where Shorstein as a State Attorney has immunity. I've been unable to find that law.

Evidently you don't know about the grand jury trial that Shorstein had against  the State Attorney in the 7th district.

Evidently you don't know about the 2006 Duke University lacrosse case. Where the prosecutor was disbarred and put in jail.

Where does he receive this immunity and from whom?

Or a supporter of his? And if it was a supporter, how do you know that he is suddenly a fan and is handing them out?

Not trying to sound accusatory, just looking for details.

Not to change the subject,but something to think about. Shorstein.Corey,Plotkin and Beseler all worked together for a long time @ the SAO. I don't know the whole story on the divorce. But part or all of that administration is going to cost us taxpayers a lot of money. The lead investigator in the Cristy Fitzgerald fiasco now works for the SO and was brought over w/ Beseler. Another botched investigation?

He was seen in that neighborhood. He has been a supporter since day one. When Braveheart only got two votes for the FOP endorsement,he was the second vote.{I'm assuming Braveheart voted for himself}

"You should also think about your blog names being subpoenaed by the courts too for some of the crap that has been slung on this blog.  If you don't know you should be careful.  Even if you say "It's my opinion", guess what....If you damage a good man's character with lies or false statements, you could fall in the same category."

You should take your own advice. If you need to be reminded about what I am speaking of, reread your blog. You do not know what you are talking about.

I agree about the botched investigation of Fitzgerald. I know the person has come to the Sheriff's office to work. When they have botched investigation such as the case the guy had the charges dropped in the murder case. He blamed Shorstein for collusion. Yet is was his agency that caused the problem. I wonder if Corey is elected will he blame her for collusion when they botch other investigations. You know they have to blame someone.

He will blame someone,he does not take responsibilty for anything.

Yes I've been watching those games for the last 3.5 years.

Seems to be a lot of that going around.

You accusations about Newman are pathetic!  The FOP count was a joke and those people will be disappointed with the "promises" that are being made by the candidate they endorse.  I can't wait for the election to end and see who makes top cop. 

There is a lot of finger pointing but a few public records requests to the SO & SAO about several pending murder cases should clear it up. More botched cases that have not been made public.

We have been disappointed for the past 3.5 years because of broken promises.

I am sure with every new Sheriff you get you will be disappointed with broken promises.....maybe you should retire or find another line of work.

One day I will retire,but until then I would like to see the SO be the best that it can,and once was.

I hate to say it, but with LEO's (majority of them, in fact, if you believe that the FOP stands for the entire CCSO) that are trying to sink their Sheriff, I don't doubt it. I do doubt that it is to the extent that one would have the citizens believe. Yes, I do believe that the Sheriff is ultimately responsible for everything that comes out of that office. But given that he cannot personally look at every case, he relies heavily on his staff to do the right thing as sworn law enforcement officers, as he should be able to. The pendulum swings both ways. If there was wrongdoing on the part of the Sheriff, we would have already seen a grand jury convened.

I also do not believe that because there are malcontents in the SO that it means Beseler should be replaced. There will be malcontents (probably the same ones) screaming about some injustice no matter who the Sheriff is.

So what does this mean? That Sheriff Beseler has some housekeeping to do after he is re-elected.

Shorstein gave him the green light on the grand jury. Beseler didn't take him up on it. I wonder why?

Amen,if he wins,I hope he does. It seems like this election has gone on forever. One thing for sure,on 08/27 I will go to work and be a professional LEO.