The outer Tollway

As an ex-trucker, I can tell you that a new toll road is not going to be supported by the freight industry. Why? Because there won’t be any freight to move through this area. Look around and tell me what industry is in Florida that would support it. Florida is a consumer state, not a state that manufactures anything except farm products. Farm products are seasonal. The big rigs that you see on the highway are bringing products to the major population areas then turning around and leaving the state empty, only to get another load in Georgia or Alabama. Many a time I’ve delivered in Miami or Tampa, only to be directed out of Florida to find a load elsewhere. I’ve literally had to beg my dispatcher for a load to the Jacksonville area simply for the reason to get back home to spend some time with my family. Now you see why I’m an ex-trucker.

The new toll road will be used totally by the citizens in the local area. Unless Clay county can get a large manufacturer like Ford, Toyota, or General Motors to build a plant within our borders, no big trucks will be in your way while going through the toll booths. All the big rigs are going north and south through this state so I doubt they would re-route themselves to go out of the way to use the planned outer beltway.

Marsha, I didn't mean to hijack yor blog. I'm no whiz at this stuff yet.

Mr. Heemer, sorry about that. I did read your blog and just got a bit confused. It happens to retired peopel they tell me.

If you have any e-mail address for the DOT or Gov Crist, I would like to send my opinion on this stupid project. I'm sure the corrupt in our fair land will be slobberin to getthat money  from the state but I think the majority should rule.

Quoting finder: It has already brought in business says our D5. The BoCC just approved (unanimously) a new 3300 acre community called Governor's Park.

 Well, Doh!  That's why land was given to the state, to draw the thing down that far so they could build it.  WAG THE DOG!  D5 is 5F.

"The BoCC just approved (unanimously) a new 3300 acre community called Governor's Park."

Not quite.  Yes, they did approve that the Application be forwarded to the Department of Community Affairs for State review.  The DCA will return an ORC Report to the County & the Developer for further review.  No, the Governor's Creek DRI has not been approved by the BCC, yet.  There's a long way to go from here to final approval.

After having been a pretty close observer on the last DRI application to pass through the Planning Dept., I'm curious to see what sort of extractions the County is asking for.  If the County can negotiate terms like they did with the Highlands, the area around Governor's Creek can expect some pretty serious infrastructure investment, or maybe the Developer says, "No thanks," like the Highlands.

I'll give you half a point for your semantics lesson and your ability to separate salt and sugar.

The fact is that D5 used this as an example of a business that the tollway has already brought in.

It can't be both ways. Did it bring in Governors Park or did it not? If it isn't a done deal then it didn't bring in that business and shouldn't have been passed off as having done so.

Sounds like politispeak to me. Yes or no. It is a pretty straight forward question.

Sounds pretty much like my ham and cheese sandwich analogy. If it gets approved and if the toll road is built and if the economy improves and if and if and if.

Who have we talked to that has made any kind of positive statements about coming here if you only had a road?

Duval hasn't been able to develop Cecil yet and it's been how many years?

Mike Heemer

This project feels like sitting at one of the poker tables at Orange Park Kennel Club and needing to draw two cards to fill a straight.

It's bad enough we've got to ante up a couple of billion.  It's government money, though, so that hardly sets any kind of record pot.  But the Outer Tollway is a bad hand that demands we go all-in, and what we're throwing into the pot is the character and quality of life of today's Clay County.

The Outer Tollway does hold promise and may attract the kind of major industry to create jobs that would allow residents to make a good living doing something other than working for the county.  But the only promise guaranteed to be fulfilled is that it will facilitate the reproduction of the very things Clay County does not need right now - more new houses, more Wal-Marts, more McDonald's and more demand for expensive services.

We cannot meet those demands of current residents, who daily deal with failing or declining infrastructure.  We can't fix problems, and we sure won't be able to fix them by making them worse.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

The " SLICKERS " aka devopers have managed to take politic's ( "you and me " out of the loop by forming a consortium of expressway athorities that pool their toll money to justify enough revenue to build new roads. All expressway authirity members are appointed and most are large political contributers who are tied to the growth industry in one way or another. It all began with the Orlando Expressway Auth. who's tools far exceeded their cost due to tourism  Having come her from Orlando many years ago I can assure you economic growth isn't always a good thing.  This new organiztion operates under a whole different set of laws than DOT .

Alabayea, Thank you so much for the links. I have just now e-maild all three of the people you provided links for with a plea to rethink this nonsense. Don't know if it will make a differnse but I am glad I tried.

too bad it isn't one of ours.

Nassau County Commissioner wants spending idea on ballot.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/081108/met_317095937.shtml

I wonder if we could get him to come down here and give a lecture on how to ask the tax payer about spending their money instead of what time to sell beer.

But the struggling economy actually makes it a good time to make the purchase, Boyle said, because land can be bought cheaper because of declining property values.

Apparently FDOT missed this news flash when considering how much to pay for the tollway land.

Mike Heemer

Am i ignorant is this what that HDA was all about? Does this mean there may be some elected officials who give a darn about taxpayers?

Nah, that can't be it. Never mind!

Alabayea, I also sent a letter to all three addresses you provided. The one to Governor Crist bounced back. I believe you left out the "i" in Charlie. Whn I corrected that, I almost immediately, received an acknowledgement of receipt. Thank you from me also for providing this information.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

That one slipped by me.

Here's the info:

   Governor -  email Charlie.Crist@myFlorida.com and website www.flgov.com

   DOT - Ms Kopolousos, Secretary of Transportation - email fdot@dot.state.fl.us -     District Two Public Info which includes Clay County - email gina.busscher@dot.state.fl.us and website www.dot.state.fl.us.

Just watch what bills are proposed for next legislative session on this. It might be a Special Act instead of a general bill.  If you find a bill, just start contacting every member of the Clay County Legislative Delegation about it. 

The Attorney General issued an opinion some time ago on tax issue of tollroads.  

Hey Mike - not trying to be par-snippity, just keep the facts separate from the . . . non-facts.

If you like ideas from Nassau county BCC - how about the one where they stopped collecting impact fee money for the next 6 months to help out a stagnant economy.  Hadn't heard a lot about that one, have you?  I'm shocked.

Bill.

Hadn't heard that one. It must not have been in the paper.

How much are their impact fees? What impact fees are they? When are the fees paid? I can't say for sure what I think about it until you tell the Paul Harvey version.

Which non-facts are we talking about separating?

Mike Heemer

wendi.zongker@mynassausun.com

YULEE — In an effort to boost the local economy, the Nassau County Commission Friday suspended the collection of impact fees for six months and reduced building permit fees by 50 percent for a year.

Both are effective July 1. The stay does not include impact fees collected for the Nassau County School District, County Coordinator Edward Sealover said.

“It is my belief that we are justified in doing that for a year’s time to hopefully stimulate some additional growth in the area,” County Commissioner Mike Boyle said about reducing permit fees.

Between the two, Sealover said the expected savings to builders will be more than $1.7 million based on past statistics.

Above from our cousin site www.mynassausun.com .

Non-fact: The BoCC just approved (unanimously) a new 3300 acre community called Governor's Park.

Fact:  they did approve that the Application be forwarded to the Department of Community Affairs for State review.

It may seem like a minor detail to some, but I assure there is a huge difference between the two.  Ask the guys who were trying to get the Highlands approved.  Their application was "approved" to be sent to the DCA.  That was the last approval they got.

PS - Can you believe that Commisioner had the nerve to say, "to hopefully stimulate some additional growth in the area"?  He must not be running for election.

I believe that when they presented the information for approval to submit the application they made most of the references and timelines to the Outer Beltway being built. Doesn't that mean if the Outer Beltway is not built that would be reasons to pull the application too?

Mike,

I appreciate your grabbing hold of this beltway issue and not turning loose of it.  77K per acre was an outrageous sum of money before the housing market went bust, it is even more outrageous in light of it.  I believe the rationale for that figure is that it would cost goverment that much to take it by Eminent Domain.

I wonder how much of that land is wetlands and will be mitigated.

Under the guise of "the public good" I have to wonder if they could even take the land at all by Eminent Domain.  Considering the financial liability the tax payers for generations into the future are going to have to pay I question that it is for the public good AT ALL.

This is greed and nothing more, those people who have been stroking the legislators for years as well as our own local goverment. 

Nothing will come of this beltway except more of the same that many claim they don't want.  More gas stations, more hotels, restuarants, food service type industries.  The people in the thick of it know this and they just don't care. 

Consider also the slime that travels on major interstates, criminals, those about to become criminals.  They will have a nice new little hop off point to your neighborhood.

Those that can be voted out of office should be, I hope everyone remembers that when they go to the voting booth in Nov. 

http://www.ctlac.com/ 

Bax;

I have to fess up to my mistake.

Non-fact: The BoCC just approved (unanimously) a new 3300 acre community called Governor's Park.

Fact:  they did approve that the Application be forwarded to the Department of Community Affairs for State review.

It may seem like a minor detail to some, but I assure there is a huge difference between the two.  Ask the guys who were trying to get the Highlands approved.  Their application was "approved" to be sent to the DCA.  That was the last approval they got.

You have quoted me correctly and presented the correct distinction between approving the application and the actual approval of Governor's Park.

However, as with much of your posts against those that speak against more uncontrolled growth you fail to give the rest of the statement equal time or thought.

Did D5 say that the tollway had already brought in new business by using Governor's Park as an example or not? The answer to that is yes he did.

Don't you find that a bit deceiving? Don't you find your criticizing me for my error a little one sided, when the Commissioner is blatantly trying to make it sound like this tollway is already doing what they want everyone to believe it is going to do?

I'm sorry that I myself was deceived into thinking that it had actually been approved. Obviously I need to take what D5 says with a grain of that salt you are picking out of the sugar.

Perhaps the voters in D5 need to do some analyzing of this situation. If you are correct and this project may never happen then apparently D5 is either being very deceptive or he himself has been deceived by someone.

It just can't be both ways Bax. Either you just proved he made a dishonest statement to give the tollway a plug or he knows something you don't.

Bax;

I don't read My Nassau Sun so I missed that. But again you don't give all the information. You asked me a question about how I felt about that. I told you I couldn't answer that unless you gave me to Paul Harvey version.

I still don't see the information for me to make a decision on how to answer your question. Till I see that I can only think that there is a reason for it. Like perhaps we're talking apples and oranges.

And again you gloss over half the story.

Your statement (as if it were a fact): how about the one where they stopped collecting impact fee money for the next 6 months

The Paul Harvey version: The stay does not include impact fees collected for the Nassau County School District 

Yes builders can save a lot of money by pulling permits now for houses that might be built in a year or two, but how many do you think are going to be built now when the forclosure rate in Nassau County is up 53%? Gotta be careful about what resources you give me Bax.

And Nassau County doesn't have a Blanding - 17 - 295 problem like we do.

Bax, this tollway is not all of that and a bag of fries. It is not going to rescue the building industry around here, it isn't going to solve any of our congestion problems and it isn't going to bring in thousands of high paying jobs.

What it is going to do is cost most of the people of Clay County a lot of money for darn little return on their investment. Somebody is going to make money, but it isn't the average citizen.  

Mike Heemer