What is George Bush's Problem

First I find your allegation that the candidate was not lied to, repugnant.  You seem to know quite a bit about the process.  You should also know that positions like that must be able to answer questions and must know how to completely comply with the law.  Personnel who work in a job frequently know where the loop holes are in the laws and can provide options to comply.

What is so peculiar about this case is why misrepresent?  Was my candidacy a threat to the dominant powers?   Our qualifying papers were presented and filled out in front of the SOE's personnel with the stated intention we did not want to make any mistakes.  This was done prior to noon on the 19th, all that needed to be done was to say go do this now and there would not have been a problem.  That was not done.  What was done is exactly what we were told to do.  We could have returned on the 20th if the task would have been too hard.

Do SOE personnel have a duty to tell the truth, obviously since a resignation was made for failure to do that somebody thinks truth is a requirement.  Why do we pay taxes if officials are allowed to lie, cheat or steal.

I want to point out that there were 3 people not just the person who lost their job that was present and told us what to do.  Someone of those 3 should have said no do it another way, but none said a thing to the contrary in fact they said to treat my case like a person they treated in the past.

Perhaps since you appear to be on the inside you could tell me the facts on how the mistake managed to be discovered 36 days after the end of the qualifying period.  The case I filed had 3 sworn affidavits as to the actual occurances.  The fact that the trier of fact made it known in the first 3 minutes that he was not going to look at them was a clear indicator that he had his mind made up prior to hearing any evidence.  Is that Justice? 

As far a why GB has taken the tact he has I do not know.  I know that I want those 3 Petitions to be on the ballot, I was not and am not a member of the CTLAC but I support citizens initiatives and the fact that there is a challenge to that process is  just an indicator that something is wrong with our local representation.

Just so we are clear nothing was made up by us, and we did what we were told was legal.

Yes I agree the SOE as you refer to does have a duty to tell the truth. Also each and every candidate does also. Each candidate has a responsibility for their own actions. I've been a candidate and I know you sign a paper  as part of your qualifying package saying you have read certain laws and statutes (I forget which ones) but within that material it states you must  pay with a  check from your campaign account if you are paying to run, instead of getting petitions. So all the  blame doesn't fall to the SOE.  I'm not on the inside as you refer, I have worked with the office and Ms. Kirkman and the office has always been above board.  Read the letter that was sent to all the candidates explaining the situation or ask your Treasurer. 

Sometimes you get further with sugar than by ranting and raving at people. All candidates should understand this, all workers that deal with the public are human and want to be treat as you want to be treated. 

Read the letter that was sent to all the candidates explaining the situation or ask your Treasurer. 

I don't understand what you are talking about. I am a candidate and I don't know what letter you are referring to. 

Mike Heemer

So Fred rants and raves, how is what you wrote any different except for the fact that his face and name appear and your does not? 

Please, use what you've written today and what we've written today and point out how one rants and raves but the other does not?

I think you are someone with multiple user names, like Gulfwind.  You can love us or you can hate us, but at least everyone knows who we are. 

Freds fault in all this, against his better judgement and experience he went there believing he would not be mislead, he has a basic trust in people and he should have known better. 

http://www.ctlac.com/

Fred raise all the hell you want. You earned the right.

Perhaps since you appear to be on the inside you could tell me the facts on how the mistake managed to be discovered 36 days after the end of the qualifying period.

Fred, I am very much in your corner. I also would suggest you rent a movie I have mentioned before. It's called Idiocracy. It's prety lame except for the first 5 - 10 minutes. I think you will be nodding your head at how true it all rings.

Sadly, although I have long suspected the untalented among us wind up having to work in government jobs, I see it now creeping into the workplace all around the country. Here's a short annoyance that happened to me. After retiring, I was getting (and still am) a retirement check. Out of that check came my medical premium. In it's infinite "wisdom" the company shut down it's Human Resources department and hired an outside company to handle it. Naturally, this company was not up to the job on Day 1. As a result, I had to contact my previous employer. They told me to send my premium to them. This was last October. I sent it. Same thing again in November. I sent the premium to my employer. Can you guess what's coming?

The November check was cashed in mid January, throwing off my check book. Since I have very little success in keping up with my balance (yes, I know, my fault) I was irritated but adjusted. Guess when the October check showed up? Mid May. So, incompetents are surrounding us. I rarely leave my home now. I just can't deal with the outside world. Except for Publix and a used book store on occasion, I am very content now to be a shut in. I also save a fortune on gas. I fill my car once a month to 6 weeks now. Keep smiling. It makes others nervous.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Miss Marsha, or Mrs. Willoughby-Catchpole, or Ms. Willoughby, trust me, I'm not Gambler. I don't need multiple names to make my point. I also don't need anyone else to help make my point. I study what's going on, add that to more than a couple of decades of watching Clay County politics (sometimes, it's the best political theatre available anywhere), and come to conclusions, such as we know there will always be people like you and George Bush amongst us.

Everyone has a right to participate in politics, and I admire those who try and do so on a strictly grassroots level; after all, that's the American way. However, it doesn't make you any more righteous - or right - in what you are doing than those who work through the methods using money. It's just different, that's all.

As to the case of George Bush in today's Florida Times-Union, Gambler has pretty well said everything which needs to be said. He or she has laid everything out pretty plainly as it is known to most close observers and political forecasters.

Plainly put, George Bush is one of Clay County's most prolific blowhards, who has never run away from a television camera or reporter willing to record or publish his thoughts. For the moment, he's looking to improve his position at the expense of Barbara Kirkman, one of Clay County's most honorable public servants. Everybody seems to be trying to destroy Mrs. Kirkman's reputation for their own gain (or, as a coverup for their own ineptitude). Some will say this just the norm in the rough and tumble world of Clay County local politics. That may be so, but it's really a shame. Look at all of the television and radio ads Mrs. Kirkman is running trying to make sure every voter is enfranchised and able to vote this summer and fall. She could easily just sit back, make little effort, and let the campaign season come to a close, and her career in public office end peacefully.

No, that isn't her style. She's trying to make sure every voter has full access to the elections process.

As for her endorsing Chris Chambless as her successor, since when, if you become and elected official, you give up your right to free speech? Here in Northeast Florida, local politicians endorse each other on a regular basis and no one says anything, because it's legal and honorable. Dorothy Holt and Barbara Kirkman worked tirelessly cleaning up the Supervisor of Elections office after the Good Old Boys (you know, the one in particular which left office under a huge black cloud) were voted out in the 80s. Certainly, Mrs. Kirkman wants to leave the office in the hands of someone who will carry on their tradition of bi-partisanship and running a good office. Just because Fred Catchpole couldn't take the time to read the election laws like every other candidate, and then not take ANY personal responsibility for his actions, Barbara Kirkman is being smeared. As far as the other lawsuit is concerned, well, it's all about dirty politics, not about following the law which the Supervisor of Elections must do.

George Bush's rather lame attempt at the last moment to interfere with the race is so very typical of Clay County politics. Most likely, most people today just read the article in the Times-Union, shook their heads, and went on about their business. That's what everyone should do.

Do any of you know if what a candidate fills out at the Supervisor of Elections office is public record?  I was told that someone outside their office looked at one candidates application and pointed out an error.  I just do not know if the error they were talking about was the check error.

I will take your word for it that you are not Gambler, and I will let Marsha and Fred respond to most of your post.

As I see it, you are however, either a member of the Chambless household or have close ties to his campaign--and that's fine. 

I must agree with you, Gulfwind... Roy Lyons' lawsuit he filed against SOE, the county, and the CTLAC is, indeed, all about dirty politics, and I must add scurrilous and frivolous.  Must have had help from the "Dirty Dozen".

I wasn't ranting & raving I was pointing out what Chairman Bush was doing. Typical Good Old Boy political tactics. If your going to be politically active in Clay County you need to understand the political arena you're about to enter.

The county pipeline has your husband as a last minute candidate just to close the race, so only one party will be allowed to vote. If this is true then your guilty of taking the right to vote for their representation away. A Good Old Boy tactic. I hope this isn't the case and I don't want to believe this.

Ranting & Raving is never the way to go, especially if running for public office. You may be surprised one day and be removed from an office by police. 

Remember you will always get further in life by using honey

It's all public record. All candidate paperwork is posted on the elections website for all to see. clayelections.com

All I see are bio's and financial information.

For it being 36 days after he wrote the check (if that is the correct timeline) it was probably when his first financial report was due. If his treasurer was using the elections software it probably could not be entered, because the amount exceeds an In-Kind contribution. That's probably what sent up the flag. If that check had been deposited in his campaign account as a loan to himself and then written a check from that account Fred Catchpole would still be on the ballot.

Do they keep his money?

What information do you want to see

I believe it was the candidate application that this person was saying had an error they saw right off.  I don't know if anyone that didn't know what to look for would have known about the check being written from a non-allowed bank account.

Yes they do keep it. I haven't heard whether or not if Catchpole's money will be returned. I doubt if it will, because by law the mistake has to be found before the end of qualifying. If that hasn't changed

I certainly hope Fred gets his money back. Ms. Kirkman should be ahsamed of herself stealing a man's hard earned money and blaming a flunky. Bottom line, government is corrupt.

Better be careful with that bottom line statement. The blog police will come on here and tell you how great government is and there is no corruption actively going on in Clay County. I think they actually believe that statement.

That's funny Angela. Nope, I see graft and stupidity as nearly interchangeable. (That's a big word I just heard my buddy use.) Stupid people can not do something honestly just to get by. I wonder if the blog cops will hunt me down. Just look for me hiding behind Big Mike Heemer.   We have a healthy disrespect for "business as usual".  Now I have to watch the Jags ruin my night. Thank the good lord for beer.

Gambler/Gulfwind

It is always nice to have experts in the field make a combined attack on the truth. I note that both of you are skilled at reading the law as well as reading and noting the difference that punctuation makes in understanding. Did I read the laws that were given to me in the Green Book. The answer is yes. Did I understand them and was I able to identify all the loopholes and interpretations, that answer is NO. That level of understanding is left for the people who deal with it on a daily basis.

Only someone who deals with them on a daily basis would know what is permitted and what is not permitted. Can you learn how to fly reading a book, the answer is yes. Can you safely operate an aircraft by only reading a book the answer is NO.

99.061(3) states that candidates for positions under that PORTION of the law do not have to have a treasurer or a campaign fund. 99.061(1)(2) do not address it. Does the absence of it being mentioned permit it under those provisions or does the absence of it not being prohibited mean that you can do it. I thought to ask those questions did you? What does Federal Law state and how is it interpreted by the US Supreme Court, Davis v FEC, the Court stated you can not discriminate against someone who wants to self fund his candidacy. That would suggest that 99.061(1)(2) should also be interpreted to allow a self funding candidate not to have a campaign account.

Is that what happened in this case. No boys or girls which ever you may be, that is not what happened.

I was told it did not matter what I wanted I was still required to have a treasurer and a campaign account.

How does one legally get a campaign fund? The correct answer is you must go to the SOE’s office fill out the qualifying paperwork then bring it to the bank before an account can be legally opened. Can you use an existing account that is dormant? The answer is yes but once you bring the paperwork from the SOE the account holders name changes to that of the treasurer and deposits and expenditures must be made by him or her.

I coordinated with my bank, identified a dormant account, moved $2475 from savings and put it in an active account at my chosen bank, Vystar. My treasurer and I then went to the SOE’s office to get the qualification papers. It was our intent to fill out the paperwork and take a copy to Vystar 4 blocks away move the money to the campaign account and return with a check drawn on the new account. Did that happen? No.

What happened was when I identified the bank as Vystar, the immediate response was Vystar was not acceptable.

The treasurer asked if his bank Compass was acceptable, the answer was yes. A series of questions followed: should we leave and go open that account and return with the money from it? Answer no that was not necessary. When do we have to have that account open? Just prior to accepting any money. Do you want us to leave and come back with a money order, cashiers check or what would you accept? After consulting with others in the office the answer was that they would accept a check from the active account I had at Vystar. And that sports fans is how it occurred.

Did I fit the mold that SOE was used to handling? No, It is obvious that not many people paid the full amount. Those others who qualified from district 5 did not pay a qualifying fee, they paid a petition fee which in reality is a qualifying fee but they were permitted to pay that fee with a personal check.

Every question prudent to complying with the law was asked. Upon reaching Compass Bank officials it was determined that Vystar was in fact an approved bank, and the account at Vystar was activated. It still is active and no deposits or expenditures are part of its history.

On July 23rd the treasurer appeared at the SOE’s office to fill out our quarterly report. The cash to be reported was the $2475 qualifying fee and election assessment. The SOE’s office determined how it would be reported. My signature clearly notes beside it that the Attorney General for the Secretary of State approved the method it was reported because both the treasurer and I believed there were other more appropriate ways to report it.

All of our paperwork was always filled out with the assistance and oversight of the SOE’s office. It was our position that not being politicians we did not want to have any mistakes in any of our paperwork.

There are 3 sworn affidavits that clearly reflect the above was in fact what happened. Marsha is correct I trusted in the professionalism of the SOE’s staff.

Second guessers and those with 20/20 hindsight were not in our shoes on the 19th of June so it is easy to be critical and make assumptions that are totally wrong. All the right questions were asked, not all the answers were accurate, but due to their source they were trusted and relied upon.

Gambler/Gulfwind if you are not the same person it would appear that your joined at the hip or lips of each other. It should be noted that I did not want any money from people, especially those special interests/lobbyists that appear in your candidate of choice reports.

Gambler you once stated follow the money, how does that now apply to your candidate? I put in the underlines below is your exact quotes:

“To answer the question - I'm going with experience, Chris you have my vote.

I agree with Marsha, if you go with who collects the most money, the county will stay corrupt. Look to see where the money is coming from, alot of times it's from outside the county.

Reply to JoeDaddys Blog - You must of fallen asleep while you were poll watching and dreamed alot of that story. Being a Clay County Poll Worker the Elections Office in Clay County is one office that has integrity”

In view of your previous statements and by looking at the SOE’s financial filings do you want to change your view or support or does your hindsight only work for those you do not support.

G or G

It makes no sense that Fred would have joined the race just to close the primary, that's a Partisan trick and he's not a Republican token.  What he wanted was to see someone other then a Republican run for office that is why he entered so close to the deadline.  He contemplated it for a long time and when it was obvious no one else was going to he then he did.  It's that simple, call me Ripley and Believe it or Not.

http://www.ctlac.com/

Gambler;

The county should be so lucky as to have software that smart. If it was it would have given the user an error right up front.

Here's how I see the county keeping the money. It should be and probably is illegal.

That check was written to receive certain services (being on the ballot). Those services were not provided. If in fact the check was 'illegal' it should not have been accepted. If it was not an acceptable transaction to provide the services then how is it that it is legal to keep that money?

If you wrote a check to your local cab company to take you to the airport and they never showed up to take you, would you expect to get your money back? Of course you would. If they didn't return your money you would take them to civil or possibly even criminal court to get it back.

I don't understand how the county can think that they are above that.

Mike Heemer

I stand by what I've said

I assume the prior statements you stand by are the ones you made in March 2008.  I admire your ability to support a candidate through thick and thin.

However, just so you know the only place it said where and how to pay the qualifying fee was in a small 2.5 lines of the law, it was not on the directions on how to apply.

I suggested to Barbara Kirkman that she draft instructions like they have in Melborne and Volusia County where they actually tell you how to set up your account and how to make a payment.  She said she would incorporate it in future packages.

And finally what I represented above is true and accurate presentation of the actual events.  To suggest that nothing wrong was done by the SOE staff is contrary to the evidence and facts.

Since I did not fit the normal form of application and the laws did not specifically address my situation one error occurred.   S__t happens as they say.

My chance of winning was extremely slim, however what ever votes I would have gotten without a large buildup of others money would hopefully have sent a message that the voters will vote for someone who does not represent the lobbyists and special interests, and that the voters would recognize that issues were more important than the money someone can accumulate for signs, buttons, tee shirts, and other gimmicks that candidates feel are vital to get elected.

You said follow the money, in my case there was nothing to follow. What is wrong with that?

In my mind people work hard for their money, why should they invest in a candidate that will represent only those views of their biggest donors. My actions precluded special interests and lobbyists.

With me out of the picture you certainly have enough people left with lots of money available for you to follow.  You might want to do a blog on how much special interest money you find.