The power of the Report Abuse button

How many people/times must the abuse button be hit before the post is pulled ?

TRUTHHURTS

Please go to

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

and sign the petition for the Fair Tax Bill. Tell Congress to pass this Bill.

JB,

I, for one, thank you & the rest of the staff at MCS for your continued efforts to make the MCS blogs the best thing representing the First Amendment & community interests, regardless of what Rudy Giuliani & the rest of THOSE kinds of people think of community involvement.

No matter how irritating, annoying, gutter dwelling, gut wrenching, hurling inducing, blood pressure raising or debasing (not to mention the lack of literacy or critical thinking)  some of the blog entries might seem to be, as long as they break no laws or terms of agreement, they must be given the chance to speak.  Freedom of speech is a two edged sword.  Yet as has been said by others, we all have a scroll wheel & the ability & right to use it.

I'm sure there are those blogeratti (I still love that term.  Thank you) who don't like my views on politics or religion.  Some may have ignored me or disagreed with me but the bottom line is that they had the freedom of choice to do so just as I did.  THAT is what is important. Lately, the issue of freedom of choice has come under renewed fire.  I hope that doesn't happen here at MCS. 

I don't envy you or the staff for some of the decisions you might have to make.  But I dearly hope that it doesn't devolve into automatic, name recognition censorship.  That just plain creeps me out dude.  So I wish you the best of luck, the checks in the mail & I'll still respect you in the morning.  And please remember & don't ever forget.  Life is just too important to be taken too seriously.  RABBETT!  (My salute to Mel Brooks)  JATFUR.

Rich K

I have so wanted to hit that report abuse button so many times over the CCAC issue. 

I don't see this person as wanting to improve the situation for the animals but using the site to pursue a vendetta against Connie Goon. 

However, as a blogger there is no way for me to be certain each time a new user shows up that it is him, you can figure it out after awhile but what happens if a new person shows up who wants to fuss about CCAC too.  I'm sure the man has friends. Does it then not violate free speech?

I'm glad you've given us the go ahead Jonathan because I've actually been staying out of the blogs more then what I might have otherwise due to the CCAC assault, I'm just sooooooooo tired of it and have been reluctant to hit that button for the wrong reason.  

That while I agree with Marsha on the issue of CCAC, I still wonder just what constitutes "Abuse?"  I can see if it was a personal attack, threat or obvious libel/slander.  Other than that, it's a very grey area.  Being stupid, illiterate or lacking in adequate thinking processes is abuse, but that is of a personal kind & to my way of thinking shouldn't be applied to free speech.  I've yet to push the button, but I have the feeling that I'll know when it's the right time.  And how many times does it take?  How & what is determined to pull a blog?    Just curious.

Rich K

Again, thanks for taking the time to consider what could be a delicate issue and keep us all informed.  I have some remaining questions, though.

First, could you explain the basis for banning the specific individual to whom you referred?  Was it his rudeness at dominating the website with incredible volume, MCS' perceived potential liability in the nature of his statements, or the number of times you've had to respond to complaints about him? Are you trying to ban him for what he's saying, or the way he's saying it?

I'd like to know if, as long as I do it with more consideration for other participants in this open forum, I still have the right to address what I consider inefficiencies in government, even point a finger at a specific individual I feel responsible for the inefficiencies, and call for a change without having to worry that it could be removed by abuse of the abuse button by those who simply disagree.

Second, when enough people hit the abuse button and a blogger's contribution has been automatically removed, what happens then?  Is the blog removed until MCS can review it and make a judgment on the authenticity of the abuse complaints, and possibly be reinstated, or is it forever lost somewhere in the e-world?

Both general questions concern me because of the potential for abuse.  If someone writes something that is merely controversial, can a specific minimum number of people with access to the abuse button simply make it disappear?  For that matter, can one person dedicated to the task do it themselves by hitting the abuse button repeatedly?

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

Solo wrote: I can see if it was a personal attack, threat or obvious libel/slander.  Other than that, it's a very grey area.  Being stupid, illiterate or lacking in adequate thinking processes is abuse, but that is of a personal kind & to my way of thinking shouldn't be applied to free speech.

LOL, yup Solo, you are dead on mostly. If I wanted to put it in my own simple terms, you have described "self abuse".  I think any fool can say whatever he wants (Donnnn has proved he is any fool) and have a guarantee of free speech but I don't think he has a guarantee to an audience. Besisdes, I think MCS is overdo for a need to have a minimum required IQ for blogging. The CCAC jerks have proven they do not have that.

OGV,

You have once again proven to us that you're not just another pretty face in a crowd of pretty faces.  You also have the killer instinct for finding the nuanced view. You're right, but I still stand by my opinion, based on the First Amendment, that automatic, name recognition censorship should not be used.  Keep on laughing.  It's good for the innards.  I'm funny that way.  JATFUR.

Rich K

I believe in the right of free speech and everyone has the right to their opinion.  There have been many negative reports and public records posted about CCAC, but again, I believe in the end these people are trying to get attention and bring about a change for the good of animals in clay county.  All you have to do is interview a few people who have been involved with ccac, even past employees, pull public records and wow some of you might be surprised to see all of what has been blogged is the truth.  It all may not of been presented in the way you all wanted it, or even spelled correctly,  but it is the truth.

I believe that most of the complainers are ccac employees and well I can't blame them, I would not want all of that out there for the public to see.  I believe some of the bloggers against ccac have been harshly ridiculed and when they come back are accused of abuse of the blog.  They have been called terrible names, accused and compared to some terrible people and I never saw their accusers banned or deleted from the blog. 

What's fair is fair why should the people protecting ccac be shown favoritism why are they allowed to call names, insult and compare in the way they do without being thrown off of the blog.  They have been alot worse then those against the policies and procedures of ccac and so they too should be banned from the blog.

I do appreciate everyone's opinion and of course the people who manage and have to deal with the blog, but let's be fair. 

As a public records person myself I've seen so many records that clearly show things are not what some would want you to think in animal control. This has not just started as a recent problem either.

I've seen so many personal attack against people that have been allowed to stay on the blogs and you have to asked why? Are those not personal attacks too.

You should see how hard it is to convince government workers that we do not have a number of cages problem in Clay County. We have a number of unwanted pets in Clay County. They continue to be convinced that if we increase the number of cages the problems will be solved. I'm still having a hard time understanding that government theory.

The best I can do is say we have all seen those government workers on the side of the road. It takes one person to dig a hole and 3 people to watch all on the government clock.

I agree with you Angela.  I just wish some of the poeple out there that are so quick to condemn a person for the presentation of their blogs instead might spend just a little more time on the content and maybe they might see there are real problems at ccac that are deeply imbeded and have had time to fester.   This will take some personal time though, not just blogging about it investigating it.  I personally have copies of many public records in the form of complaints and problems and audits at ccac.  I can only hope that with some of the new commissioners and the new volunteer committee they will be able to see through all of the smoke screens thrown up by ccac and get to the real problems so we can make life better for clay county animals.

Good questions. I'll start from the top:

1) TruthHurts- I don't want to say the exact number because that would open it up to complete abuse. But no, one person can not click enough to remove a piece of content by themselves (of course, I can't stop you from experimenting with how it works)

2) Solo - I hate censoring anything on this site, so let me make it perfectly clear - this user has repeatedly violated numerous parts of the Terms of Service. We took it to his level because the user has been asked not to return and has continued to do so anyway. Name and subject censorship will never happen on MyClaySun.com - but any user will be removed if they repeatedly violate the Terms of Service. Had this user been talking about the Board of County Commissioners, or the menu at McDonald's, we would have taken the same action. 

3) Michael - Exactly. It's how the user said it, not what they said. CCAC might have problems, but they can be addressed without personally attacking individuals at the org. 

About the Report Abuse button - when a blog/comment goes away after enough Report Abuse clicks, it goes to a bin for review. We check it out, and if everything is OK, we re-publish it. You and everyone else here should feel free to use MyClaySun.com to air their problems, concerns or frustrations with local politics (or anything else). Stay away from personal attacks and foul language, and you'll be super.

Again, I appreciate you guys being so great, and let me know what you think.

904.359.4538 e-mail Jonathan

To All Concerned,

I do have one honest question.  Please remember that due to the nature of the blogs concerning CCAC, I have scrolled over them due to lack of interest & the obvious display of disrespect.

Of all the people who have blogged @ CCAC, especially in the way of complaints, have any of them provided factual evidence of wrongdoing to some official entity to produce an official investigation into the nature of the claims?  Yes, we all have the right to complain @ pretty much anything we want.  But what is the total worth of the complaints if one does nothing more than complain?

If any of them have evidence, produce it to the proper authorities for the pupose  of starting an official investigation.  If you don't, please entertain the thought of actually collecting some kind of documentation to substantiate your claims of wrondoing.  Without documentation, your claims are worthless & serve no purpose other than to irritate.  Think about it.  JATFUR.

Rich K 

In the State of Florida animals are considered property. When property was taken from animal control (government workers). Government did an investigation. Government concluded that they have no policy for taking property from the county. Government oversight of government.

However, I would not suggest you go take your neighbors property and then show up in court with the reason. Yes sir Judge, I can't be charged for taking this property. They didn't have a policy in place for taking property.

Jonathan, thanks for the reassurances that any abuse of the abuse button will only be temporary, at best.  I figured you had it reasoned out, just unsure of the process.

Rich, the answer to your question is yes.  If you consider wrongdoing as less-than-top efficiency in government, I had evidence of a couple of situations at CCAC.  I reported them to the proper authorities.

I didn't issue a single personal insult, consequently people heard what I said instead of only how I said it.  Both times, the problems I reported were immediately corrected.

Then what happened to that $10.00 cash charge at CCAC you once spoke of?

Thanks for the question an the answer is yes, documentation has been put together and presented several times on some of the issues, a few were very serious and because the loss did not exceed $10,000. and we are only talking about animals the state's attorney would not follow it thru.  Documentation has been presented to the county manager and  commissioners, but it's not a popular subject with no political return, audits has been performed and problems found and corrected internally.Complaints have been filed against the false allegations coming out of ccac.  As a result of some of the complaints a committee has been formed called Citizens for a Better Clay County Animal Control, approved by the county manager and a very good thing, hopefully just their presence will help to change the conditions for clay country animals.

I too wanted to thank Jonathan for all of his efforts, but my question is why were some of the bloggers who were so accusing and doing comparisions to a domestic terrorist and Ted Budney and sexual insults and personal insults, why were they not banned?

I would like to ask a question too. Have they changed the policy that prohibits county workers from blogging on county time?

Here is the blog that explains the questions to Mike Mann.

http://myclaysun.com/node/3592

The link is to a blog that more fully explained the problems I reported and my opinion about the situation.  The opinion remains unchanged, but I stated it once, know it has reached the people is should reach, and see no reason to restate it over and over and over.

The question about the patial-cash requirement for payment at CCAC is that I have been assured the policy has changed, but haven't personally verified it.  And I haven't followed up about whether the official Internet-use policy remains so ineffective county employees can blog on taxpayers' dime and equipment with virtual impugnity. I'll see what I can do and let you know.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

I should of added that improprieties were found and new policies and procedures were written to cover them.  No one was ever held accountable for any of the improprieties.

You must remember, although we love Clay County, it is run by a handful of people, the county manager, 5 commissioners, an auditor, a few code enforcers and a few directors.  We rely solely on them to hold themselves accountable.   After all they self audit and investigate themselves and come up with the solutions.  I think an outside audit and outside investigations should be done in a county like Clay.

Your IT people should be able to give you the objectionable person's IP address.  From that you could run a DNS search to determine his ISP. 

He may be violating their TOS.  A complaint from you might get the ball rolling for his ISP to take some action.

 Just a thought.

That complaint could read something like this:

"A Clay Co citizen after finding many problems with ccac decided to bring it to the attention of other clay co. citizens, his spelling and verbage weren't good and when he was called names and accused he may have called names back, he posted public records and public files and complaints to make the public even more aware, again he was called names and mocked and god forbid if he returned the favor.  But, some went too far and called him a domestic terroriest, compared him to ted bundey and mocked him sexually, but boy he's the bad one we need to find him, but I guess we need to find the others too come to think of it, cause they are wrong, wow, they are wrong too."

There are  right ways to voice your complaints and then there wrong ways. Without a doubt the individual everyone is talking about was doing it the wrong way...PERIOD...

Those that responded to him were, for the most part, taking a stance to make him give evidence to support his accusations. He could not do that and then started bashing those that questioned him.  The point is that he violated the Terms of Service for MCS and has been banned from the site. (if you can not play nice then stay home!!!)

I would venture to say that this story is not over yet, as I am sure that there will be legal action taken against this individual. I am sure that we will hear the end of the story....

For fairness sake, I think everyone involved with the childish behavior on those threads should all be banned. It doesn't matter any more who started what or who called who anything, all the behavior is deplorable. Everyone of those ISPs should be identified and a firewall against them erected. How hard can that be?

For the record, at least Ted Bundy was charming. Psychotic to be sure but a far more intelligent human being than Don ever will be.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

With all due respect why does everyone try and put a name to a blogger.  You guys have no idea who is who, there are bloggers out there with multiple names, bloggers pretending to be someone else and I am sure bloggers in this situation blogging to try and mimic others to make them look bad.  So please stop trying to put a name to a blog.

All due respect back to you newcomer but anyone with the ability to read at a third grade level could tell by the thoroughly incomprehensible cyber scribblings of Don Rammon (who, by the way, admitted to who he was) no matter how many times he changed his screen name. Even Jonathan confirms the multiple access registrations even after he was asked to cease and desist. This tells me that all registration is automatic. MCS should probably spring for the extra software code line to filter his ISP. (Heck, I will even offer to pay for it.) Yes, Solo is absolutely right in that we with IQs larger than our shoe sizes can just scroll past and that is what I have been doing but really, allowing him to continue to crucify the English language as he does sets a poor example for those who come after. If we do not contain this virus it will assuredly infect others. No less than the soul of the nation in the form of proper English skills is at stake. If we let him continue it is as if we give tacit approval for him to do so. He is a very, very bad man and needs to be put down in a cyber friendly way. (Solo, I hope I did not sugar coat that too much.) It is all to the greater good. Trust me on this. A mind is not only a terrible thing to waste but it also should not be abused.  Don't try to con us with the factoid that he loves animals. So did Hitler.  

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

I don't think anyone could have said it better.  I know you've definitely spoken for me and probably an awful lot of other people in Clay County.

Adios Hitler.

Maggie

Life is short. Break the rules, forgive quickly and never regret anything that made you smile!!!!

Anonymous

Lily,

No worries with your comments.  With those, I could take my coffee black & it would be sweet enough.  But I do disagree a bit.  I stand by my original post in saying that any censorship by name recognition only is wrong unless there is documentation that the person in question broke some law or broke the terms of agreement set by MCS.  We may be on a very small playing field & some would pooh pooh any thoughts that this might be a First Amendment issue.  But it most certainly is.  We must allow any dissenting view, regardless of how vile we may think it to be, regardless of substance or level of literacy.  Too many people have fought & died for that very right.  You & I are good examples of opposing views that have not been received well.

Pick a topic, any topic.  Religion, politics, local or otherwise, we have strong views that in many instances go against the majority.  But compare the responses to that of the blogs @ CCAC or the recent blogs on the sheriff's race.  No comparisson except that we all have the right to chime in.

As I said in another reply, I don't envy the task of JB or any of the other staff who have to deal with this problem.  Bless their collective gizzards, as some say here in the South.  I really can't believe I actually said that.  Oh well.  That's what you get when the CUBS & the Jags loose at the same time.  OY!  JATFUR.

Rich K

JB,

I offer my apologies for not reading everything.  I had a hot & heavy day & obviously my reading skills have suffered. 

In your post, "Good questions.  I'll start, you very plainly stated in your reply to me that the violator repeatedly violated the terms of agreement.  That's the red flag.  I'm sorry I missed it & sorry if I wasted the time of my fellow blogeratti with superfluous explanations.  But on the other hand, it's a great excuse to brush up on my typing skills, such as they are.  Once again, so sorry.

Rich K

How To Make The Perfect Rammon Noodle Soup

Ingredients

MichaelMoore

LoonieGoonie

Spot

KissMyGrits

ExDogCatcher

Donn

Donnn

Donnnn

It

Maybe

Too

Fido

Retired Farmer

FelixTheCat

Note:  Do not feed this to FelixTheCat; extremely Toxic unless in the presence of ExDogCatcher 

Recipe:

Thinly Sliced pound of MichaelMoore

A Little Chilled LoonieGoonie - the "Exotic Spice"

1 Gallon of KissMyGrits - Ground in the CookieGrinder

Roll Out a Layer of Fido for the top

Use your CookieCutter to cut out the Catawba worms of the Oompa Loompa

1 Beer Can Chicken - Stick a Fork in it till it’s Donn

Note: Wash your hands after you’re Donnn with the Chicken

Numerous tons of Whale Blubber; I recommend the Donnnn brand

Maybe a Spot of Garbage Too

Cook It at 500 degrees relentlessly for hours, days or months

Put in a huge, and I mean huge, bowl with a Spot on it. Place a spike collar around RetiredFarmers neck. Put the bowl in a place outside in a shaded area and tether the RetiredFarmer on a 3 foot chain and place the bowl 10 feet away and yell HAY, RetiredFarmer "Come and git it". A perfect meal for that RetiredFarmer who’s shuckin corn and spied the red jig stealin his companio and was dirty with caked hog manure after wallerin with the hog to get the perfect shade of LIPSTICK ON THE PIG. When you’re watching him run to the bowl, it’s like puttin an eggbeg in your knobscotch, makes your puterism naskisheate.

I personally recommend a loaf of oaf Don99977 on the side.

And, of course, spread around gobs and gobs of distasteful Gottsayit and bunches of repetitious Newcomer

Wowie zowie, CW, now that is creative writing! 

Too many people have fought & died for that very right.  You & I are good examples of opposing views that have not been received well.

Solo, absolutely, too many have died for these freedoms we enjoy and, sadly, all too frequently take for granted. I think for arguments sake (and how I love a good argument) I think if you told a young enlisted man that he was about to die so a perverted old man can voice the opinion he should have the right to have sexual congress with a seven year old boy, I think he may well feel justified in taking a single step backward from that particular mission. Should we ask another enlisted man if he would like to give his life for the incomprehensible ramblings of Mr. Rammon, I am sure we would receive a scowl along with a question eye as to how serious we could possibly be. All that aside, I fervently agree with your ideals. I just prefer to be a tad more judicious as to who gets to use those ideals. I am a firm believer in drawing lines one should not cross. But that's me and this is why I so enjoy our conversations.

As to our opposing views that are not received well by some of the mental midgets of mediocrity, well, I thrive on the conflict, so long as there are no sharp implements involved. I have a sneaking suspicion we are as cojoined twins on that philosophy, Horatio. :>)

Lily's Lore "And I don't give a damn about a life after death
but I've gotta get some proof that there's a life after birth" Jim Steinman

Lily, I'd say between the sharp mind and sharp tongue you are armed well enough to hold your onw in any conflict. 

That is a good thing and meant as a compliment! 

Mike Heemer