Folio follow up to 'Don't Bother'

From what I've heard, the schools aren't going to do any planning this year regarding revamping their sex ed curriculum due to a 200% (approximate) expansion in teaching evolution.

Felix;

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize that the science teachers were doing double duty as sex ed teachers.  

Mike Heemer

Did I hear correctly?  Is the great State of Florida looked upon as being somehow behind the times, behind the rest of the world & reality in general in their views, & thus their so called methods of teaching the subjects of sex education & evolution? 

Why fiddle dee dee.  That can't be so.  After all, this is the way they've been doing it for at least 120 years.  By gum, if it was good enough for the children back then, it should be good enough for them now.  Progess.  Bah, what do those newcomers know about progress.  All they have are radical notions, that's all.  What do the children of Florida have need of some new fangled ideas, especially from science. Gimme that old time teachin' & stuff.  That's all they need.

Well don't that beat all.  All of this infernal thinking about stuff has gone & given me a bodacious headache.  Whatever will I do?  I'll just have to go & take a nap.  Then I'll know what to do.  I'll go & figure things out tomorrow, because, after all, tomorrow is another day.  

Kids, that really hurt to say it out loud.  But then sometimes, the truth really hurts, no matter how one tries to sugar it up.  JATFUR.

Rich K

Experts are hoping that by stepping up the evolution curriculum and replacing abstinence-only with modern sex ed teaching will reverse Florida's "Brain Drain" with "Brain Suck," in which all the best and brightest will be sucked into Florida.

I'll just have to go & take a nap.  Then I'll know what to do.  I'll go & figure things out tomorrow, because, after all, tomorrow is another day.  

Have a Chicago pizza and a six pack before the nap. After all, "as god is your witness, you should never go hungry again".   Purty good advice from just another pretty face in the crowd.  :>)

Felix;

Would that be a bad thing if we got some of the best and the brightest to move to Florida?

Maybe we could move up above the number 47 spot or whatever it is in education.

Maybe then our 'A' schools would be recognized as something other than mediocre outside of Florida

Maybe then UF could be known nationally as something more than the best party school.

And yet we keep putting the same people back in charge. If they've been in the system for 3 terms or in the admin side of the school for 14 years, they aren't part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

My thought is that if we don't want to hire professionals to do some of those jobs then we need to set term limits for ALL elected positions. If they can't solve problems in 8 years they aren't going to solve problems at all.

It just seems to me that whatever it is we've been doing for the past 50 years isn't working too well. I don't know. Just some random thoughts.

Mike Heemer

OGV,

Yyea verily I say unto you, get up off thine arse & got yourself a cold refreshing adult beverage for you sayeth the truth in unvarnished ways.  A CHICAGO pizza & some cold brews sounds like it might just cure what ails me.  But on the other hand, the citizens of florida will sometime in their future, have to decide just how they want their students to be taught.

I understand the religious background end of the argument but in no way do I condone it for teaching in public schools.  We must do better than that.  Science is ridiculed.  Rational & critical thinking is frowned upon & ridiculed.  Logic is nowhere to be seen & intellectualism seems to be put in the category of the village of the damned.  It is truly a sorry state of affairs.

The citizenry needs to furnish certain segments of the population with up to date caledars that show that we are now in the 21st century.  We have science & we can work with it.  We do, indeed, have problems with sex education, or, more rightly, lack of it, but inserting the collective mind set into the nearest sand pile will do absolutely nothing to help.

If I were king, I would recognise that I had not only a deep dilema but a deep pile of kimshee.  I would also be seduced to take Draconian measures.  As the old saying goes, "Tough times call for tough solutions."  But then I would probably find a burning cross or something similar on my front lawn.  Someone would probably confuse me with an abortion doctor.  Do I look like a doctor?

I fervently hope that I will see some viable solutions in my lifetime.  If not, maybe in the next.  May the force be with you.  JATFUR.

Rich K  

Florida has taken a spanking for the last few years about being behind the times in a lot of areas.  Hanging chads made us look like idiots to the rest of the nation during a past election.  Our education system continues to lag behind other parts of the country.  Big industry is non-existent within the borders of this state.  Some even talk about Florida being the buckle in the Bible-Belt so science can’t be taught with an open mind.  

 Here is a little something to ponder.  Is it the antiquated attitudes of Floridians that has caused these problems or could it possibly be the attitudes of the transplants that have moved here from other parts of the nation and world?  I read not long ago that less than 20% of the population of this state are actually native Floridians.  Take a peek at the biographies of our elected officials and you’ll find that most of them are from other states.  Charlie Crist is from Pennsylvania, Mel Martinez was born in Cuba, Cliff Stearns is from Washington, D.C.  How many people that you know personally were actually born and bred in the “Sunshine State”?  A lot of people in the Miami area don’t speak English, central and south-east Florida is one retirement community after another built to house retired snow bunnies from the frigid north.  Jacksonville’s largest employer is the military so it’s understandable that a lot of employees are from other areas.

 Maybe progress in Florida is a little stymied because its citizens have allegiances and devotion to someplace else.

The weekend I moved here 60 minutes ran a piece about the Duval school system.  What I remember at the time was thinking that there must be an underlying goal of creating generations of mediocre citizens.  After 30 Plus years I see that I was correct.

Today’s children cannot think for themselves, cannot reason out a problem, cannot find it in themselves to research controversial topics such as global warming.

I believe it was Karl Marx who proclaimed ‘you start with the children’.  There should be a big sign on very school in the state.  “THE HOME OF MEDIOCRITY”.

As far as sex-ed goes I have one thing to say: “I don’t know nothing about birthin’ no babies”.

JD

(Look out Mississippi, here we come)

I think we have done it.

I think that day has finally come.

We got old, and now sound like our parents did.

We were all young and silly once. We wore funny cloths and our hair styles were outlandish. Our music and dancing with our pelvis thrusts and gyrating (for the king) was decadent. We smoked a little dope and drank some wine (it sure was some mighty fine wine because Jeramiah was indeed a bullfrog). Jerry Lee Lewis married his teen cousin. Chuck berry fornicated with his guitar on stage for millions to see. Lenny Bruce was arrested how many times? Who can ever forget flower power and the sexual revolution ahhhhhhhhh free love.

Oh we all made our mistakes, tons of them. While our parents pleaded with us to heed their words and grow up.

Back in our hay days could anyone tell us, or educate us, or conveince us not to listen to our raging hormones and decadent ways. Could anyone truely put a halt to our exercising our free will and crazy wild sprits ? 

If our Jr High and High School kids do not understand all the consequences of sex we have failed as parents. It is my duty to teach them this as a parent. I would never personally rely on some class in a public school to teach them this. I don't object to it being taught, I just don't rely on it.

There are many many things that our kids today do that quite frankly is beyond me. It makes me scratch my head and think retards.

But I know they are not retards, they are simply trying to make their mark in this crazy world so they can say that was my generation.

I personally am not prepared to label them as ignorant or that they do not understand the ramifications of sexual relationships. I think these kids our a lot smarter then we give them credit for.

Do some young people get careless and end up a teen and pregnant? Yes. Do some end up hooked on drugs ? Yes. Do some get std's and aids ? Yes. What generation has not gone through such trials and tribulations ?

I think the majority of our young people are alot smarter then we sometimes give them credit for. But I guess as our parents did, we are and always will worry about them.

"Teachers leave them kids alone" (Pink Floyd-The Wall). Parents talk to your kids.

TRUTHHURTS

Please go to

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

and sign the petition for the Fair Tax Bill. Tell Congress to pass this Bill.

I didn't read the follow up story in Folio but I did read that Mike Taylor will be working to clear his name in Clay Today. Good for him.

This is an ongoing problem in the State of Florida.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orl-abstinence1408apr14,0,7821897,full.story

Great article Angela. Thanks for the link.

TH, I agree with much of what you say. The real problem I see is that most parents don't talk to their children. They expect the schools to provide all the education the children need.

Whether that is right or not (and I agree it isn't) that's just the way it is. If we leave it at 'that's the parent's job' I think we are doing a disservice to the children and to ourselves in the long run.

Having said all of that, the real point of the article was that without some open discussion in the sex ed department, we are failing to teach young adults that NO means NO. The article had more of a focus on rape prevention than STD prevention.

If you can find a copy of last week's Folio the article is well written and worth reading.

Mike Heemer

Also not so interesting, or correct ideas.  Right off the bat, these questions are not new.  I would highly recommend the book, "The Age of American Unreason," by Susan Jacoby.  It is a very scholarly tome that covers these subjects in detail, along with many other related subjects.

JD, some of your points are at the center of this book.  I think you would enjoy it very much.

Walt, while your idea of "transplants," being the cause of the problem is fairly easy for "natives," to digest, it doesn't hold water for a simple fact.  The problems with education, not only in Florida, but in the South, in general, & to a certain extent, some parts of the Midwest, can be traced back to Revolutionary times.  For an understanding much superior to what I can furnish, I suggest Ms. Jacoby's book.

While a multi faceted problem, foundations for this problem can be seen in two root causes.  One, the propensity of politically & religiously conservative people in the South to believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible & slavery, more specifically, what was, & maybe still is, called the landed, property owning aristocracy.  Many other causes surely added to the problems we have now including giving control of school curriculms to local jusrisdiction rather than having national standards, mass communication technology, and yes, even the culture of the '60's.

But on regional educational disparities, here is just one telling fact in the book & the source listed was, Scott Baier, Sean Mulholland, Chad Turner & Robert Tamura, Income & Educationof the States of the United States, 1840-2000, Working Paper 2004, Nov. 31, 2004, Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, Working Papers Series.  (What a mouthful)  In the book, & I'll quote for the sake of accuracy, it says, "One of the most telling sets of statistics in the 1840 census is the comparative percentage of children in school in different regions of the country: in New England, the proportions of children enrolled in school in 1840 was twice that of the mid-Atlantic states & six times greater than that in the South.  Although the mid-Atlantic States, the Middle West, & Pacific regions cought up with New England by the end of the nineteenth century, the severe disparity between the South & the rest of the nation persisted until after the Second World War--& the gap has not been fully closed even today."

So yes, when it comes to religion & education, it would seem that once again, southern states have another "Peculiar Institution,"  this time, one of lack of respect for education.  Ever wonder why the term, "Intellectual elite," is usually pointing one way, from political & religious conservatives & used in a diparaging manner?

This has a snowball effect because parents are, or at least  should be, the primary source of instilling morals, ethics, good behavior & a love & respect for the acqusition of knowlege.  Even to an untrained eye like mine, one can see that the single largest impediment to education, at least as far as science, evolution & healthy sex education goes, is religious belief.  One only has to ask why did it take until 2008, for the word, "evolution," to be used in local schools, here & elswhere?  Why is it that abstinece only sex education, which has been shown to be inferior, as far as real world situations are concerned, is still adamantly promoted?  Then, all one has to ask is what person, what group, is behind not only beginning this kind of mindset, but promoting it to this day?  The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of Christian evangelicals, as it has since after the Revolutionary War.  Yes, I could very well be wrong.  But there is such overwhelming evidence of this, the finger of blame has very few other places to point.  Take it for what it's worth.

Rich K

As probably one of the very few "bloggers" on here that is actually under the age of 20,  I think i take a completely different perspective to these topics. An on the topic of sex eduacation, I can say from experience that kids arent going to take it seriously if its taught from a 60 year old science teacher. Its just plain and simple, when we had those "special days" in gym class back in jr. high and high school , where instead of dressing out and going and playing basketball or something in the gym you had to go to a classroom and get a book a million pages long on why sex is bad and why you should practice abstinence, and then some boring old guy would stand in the front and basically read from the book and you had homework assignments. Well guess what, that didnt do crap. We (the students) just saw it as a waste of time and copied each others answers just so we could get the grade and get out of there. 
Now growing up my parents taught me well and I had a good understanding of right from wrong, but not all parents are the same and some kids might not get those same lessons. And thats where the school system comes in. I do believe in sex eduacation throughout jr. high and high school, I just think there has to be a better way of getting that point across. At least hire someone to talk to the kids that have been in their shoes within at least 10 years, because a lot has changed over the past couple of decades. We arent the same people are parents were, we face different situations and I think the school should hire someone who knows what those situations are and who can relate to the students. 
All in all, parents do need to talk to their children , but for those who dont the schools need to hire someone who the kids will actually listen to, and someone who will listen to them, because thats all that we really want, someone to listen to what we have to say and actually be willing to help.  

Eventgirl,

Your name seems to be new so allow me to welcome you to the blogohood as one of the newest members of the blogeratti.  On to your post.

On the whole, I agree with pretty much everything you said.  Please consider this.  My next birthday will be # 60.  I & many others like me have one thing in common. We have all been where you, & your peers are now.  It might surprise you to know that  we voiced the same words as you just did.  They were as valid then as they are now.  But reality has a way fo rearing its ugly head.  About the age of the teachers.  Up to a point, you have a valid point.  Please remember two things.  All teachers, like all people, are not the same.  They've had different lives, went through different experiences & have been exposed to lifes travails.  But your idea of getting a teacher closer to your own age is a good one.  While someone like you & someone like me may have many things in common, I can't have the same knowlege of what people of your generation are going through in detail.  I think that people your age have it much harder than we did.  My suggestion.  Get together with your peers who share your opinion.  Write a plan of exactly what you want.  Talk to your parents, a minister at your place of worship & especially a school counselor & present them with your ideas.  Please, don't demand anything, just present.  Remember that they are working under restraints of all kinds.

Listen to their reply.  Take notes & ask questions.  Be polite.  Now here comes the hard part.  Will it be a pain in the butt?  Absolutely.  Do you stand a good chance of getting nothing of what you ask?  Yep.  That's life in the real world whether you're under 20, over 50 or anywhere in between.  Hint, hint.  Don't give up.  Nothing worthwhile comes easily.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that there are better ways to get the point across.  Once again, restraints.  Societal restraints.  Legal restraints.  Religious restraints.  Budgetary restraints.  You might even be able to mention more. 

But think of this way.  If somone like you would have thought of this & had the guts to carry it out 50 or 75 years ago, we might not have these problems now.  Take my word for it.  Being a trend setter as opposed to a trend follower is much more difficult.  Any one can follow the crowd.  The big problem is that the situation, view & the smell never changes.

I hope that you can follow up on this with some success & hope that you continue to contribute to the blogs.  You sound as if you have a pretty good head screwed on to your shoulders.  That's a very admirable trait.  Hope to hear from you again.  Just Another Tip From Uncle Rich (JATFUR)

Rich K

I understand the school system teaching abstinence BUT I think kids in high school need to be able to talk about sex beyond abstinence. It would be easier if they would separate the boys and girls. They teach health classes in high school, separate them and add "the sex talk" to that class and as finder said No means No, this needs to be taught too. My age is in the middle of eventgirl and solovoce. I could talk to my parents about anything and I've raised my boys with the same beliefs. My son dated a girl who could never talk to her parents about sex. Kids like this need someone they can turn to. No offense Solovoce but I think it is easier for kids to talk to someone closer to their own age. Looking back when I was 20 I don't know that I would have believed that a 60 year old teacher could answer my questions about a topic like this. Of course I'm wiser now, ha. If I remember correctly the girls in the original "Don't Bother" story were afraid to tell their parents what happened to them. This was one of the issues that caused the charges to not be filed. There needs to be open communications between kids and their parents, no matter the topic.

Sam,

No offense taken.  I just re read my post, in particular the part on the age of teachers.  I should have been more specific.  I agree that in this situation, it would probably better for people of their age to be instructed by someone closer in age. 

Eventgirl said she was under 20.  Even if the teacher was 30, that teacher would have more in common & know about more problems of that age group than someone my age.  Thanks for bringing it up.

Rich K

It's great to hear from someone your age who cares enough to weigh in on a discussion and enlighten us all.  There are a lot of people on here who read a magazine article and think they are experts on a subject, it's nice to hear from someone who has just graduated and knows what they are talking about.

I had thought the idea of conservative christian influence hurting the schools was just atheist talk wrapped in a new package; I was basing this on my high school experience in the 80's, but that was in Illinois, not Florida.  If your sex ed experience was really so useless it makes me wonder why they have the class at all.  It's sounds like they are trying to make everyone happy (except the kids) by having a class to satisfy the libs, but also make it innocuous enough to keep the conservative christians happy.